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Timberhick

Faction Books

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Well to be honest I'm not too worried about faction books. With generic data cards and an adaptable game system it is likely that Reaper will be the ones playing catch-up with the players. Most people, myself included, will be playing predominantly non-tournament games. That translates to "going crazy with the house rules" I can almost foresee Warlord becoming a RPG wargame hybrid that leans more strongly to the wargaming side. Gaming groups developing their own warlords, sgts., uniques, etc... and running ongoing campaigns. Quite honestly I'm quite excited about it.

 

Thank you Reaper for making such a fluid game that puts the players first. I think you'll be rewarded not only in your Warlord line sales, but in your DH sales as well as folks "personalize" their factions.

 

Cheers!

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Thank God I am not the only one hesitant about faction books. I was getting a little scared there for a bit.

 

I'd imagine a good number of us have put in our time playing games where expansions get in the way as much as they help. I hope our concerns are taken to heart.

 

I see real amazing potential in Warlord and love the miniatures. My fear of it being another power-level creep game is such that I've decided to halt all purchases until I know one way or another. Until I know the relation between the future faction books and the rulebook, I can't justify risking buying a bunch of miniatures for a game that might turn into another power-level escalating, army invalidating mess that I likely won't enjoy. EDIT: And now I do know. The faction books are going to be non-mandatory expansions that don't invalidate anything

 

Anyone have any facts on the role of the faction books and the relation to the faction lists in the core rule book? Additional units that expand the list or rules that replace them?

 

With generic data cards and an adaptable game system it is likely that Reaper will be the ones playing catch-up with the players.

 

I certainly hope so. It's so simple for a top-down spirit of rigid adherence to "official" rules to spread among a given gaming group. I would hate for Reaper to foster such a spirit by declaring stats in the rulebook no longer valid. I think trying to make the force book a mandatory replacement for the rulebook faction list would be counter productive. Think of all the stat cards that are already out there in blisters. I hope none get rewritten with the release of a faction book. Yuck. Imagine a store having a mix of miniatures from a distributor. Some might have the old stat card. Some might have the new. I certainly hope they don't change any miniature's stats! EDIT: And they won't.

 

Nathaniel

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Have you seen the Journal of Recognition books released for CAV? The JoR1 has entries for every unit in the main rulebook, and they didn't change any stats. Some point values were tweaked, probably to fit with the custom creation rules in that book.

 

That's the track record so far.

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I despise faction books. I don't mind an expansion every once in a while with errata, clarifications, OPTIONAL rules, and updated army lists, but I hate faction books more than I can say on a family oriented board. Very well executed faction books, and I might stick with Reaper's Warlord ruleset, poor or even mediocre execution and I throw the Warlord book away and set about converting everything to ARES..... as well as being peeved beyond all reason*.

 

Codexes are a pox. Warhammer army books are a pox. The Battletech Field Manuals or whatever they were- you guessed it. A pox.

 

I was going to get Warlord as soon as it got here- but I don't trust anyone, even the absolutely sterling people at Reaper, to do faction books well. Frankly I don't think it can be done, because to my mind faction books are a nasty disease. However, because Reaper have a history of producing The Good Stuff and relying on its quality, not half-baked marketing** trash, to make sales, I'm willing to give them a chance. I'll wait for the first faction book -or two- to come out, and then if enough people I trust tell me the books have stayed on the ball and not gone completely to the dogs, I'll reconsider Warlord.

 

*I'm not claiming to be reasonable.

 

** I refer here to gimmicky BS, not intelligent marketing. Anyone who wants to argue that these are the same thing can contact me off-list so that we may discreetly conduct our vicious flame-war in private, as I've no wish to horrify anyone on this list with my extensive repetoir of vile imprecations.

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Who knows? Maybe this is reapers way of dishing out stats for the DH figs ::D:

Dang, I hadn't even thought of that! How cool would that be if the Faction books had the stats for all relevant DHL minis for that faction? :B):

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Alright,

 

For some odd reason I feel like I should weigh in on this. Now, I'll probably get flamed to left field for it, but hey, that's life. Onto the topic...

 

I like faction books. Yes, you heard me right, I like them. Why? I find it very hard to get a feel for a faction straight from the core rules or from a popcorn book. I'm a fluff nut. I love understanding the background of my forces and making them have a good backstory. Winning was never my goal... I've lost more games than I can count, but I've loved every minute of playing with a fluffy force. As much as I enjoy the Warlord core rules, the faction fluff is no better than splats in the White Wolf roleplaying books. You get two pages on every faction, told in second person, with a little diagram of how they think of the other factions. Great, I know who the faction is, where they are from, and some interesting things about them. What about their history? What motivates them? How did they get where they are? 34 pages of background tailored to a faction gives me a much better feel for a theme than say 4 pages of background shoved into a popcorn book. Now, if you don't like fluff, fine, but that's my reasoning for them.

 

BTW, if you look at marketing strategy, something gamers hate to think about (that our darling companies aren't putting out books just for our enjoyment, but are trying to make, god forbid, money...) faction books aren't the big seller you would think. In GW, it's expected that you would buy a faction book, sit down and read it, and then build an army. Now, I don't know about you, but in Warhammer, armies are pretty big, and I don't think I could paint an army to any quality standard within a year or betters time. So, if I build my army, and paint it well, and enjoy the hobby side of this, then it'll be a year or so before I field my full force. (Not to say I won't play smaller games with what I have painted...) So, a year in, I'm playing with my full original force. Now, I can add units that I didn't include my original force, and by the time I have them painted, and have gamed with them, I'm two years down the road, and oh look, it's time for a new faction book. That's the kind of model GW looks at, and that's how game store owners that I know view GW. It's a big intial investment that takes time to mature into the monster game that it can be.

 

I would like to acknowledge though, that it's tough to start a game with faction books, and the power spiral is always a tough thing to negotiate, but as said before, it happens in CCG's all the time. I've been gaming for close to ten years, and Warlord is the most superior product on the market yet in the miniatures catagory, and I'll be glad to see faction books for it when it comes, and I say that as a BL who's supported Reaper one hundred percent in a GW community.

 

As for the Warmachine books... I played it for a while. Now I don't... and I hate the game. Why? Force customization doesn't happen until a new book comes out. I can't swap weapons or spells, I have to take them at face value. I like to be able to change my forces, not have a static force of rotating models. Maybe they'll change that in the future with more books, but early on, it drove me away, because I didn't want to play with the same 10 units for the year before Escalation came out.

 

Phew, I think I'm outta steam.

 

Number one, let the flames begin...

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Everybody take a deep breath.

 

Good, now take another one.

...

 

Good.

 

What I'm seeing here is that most people who don't like faction books are disliking them because they got burned by GW and WHFB/WH40K.

 

1. Reaper is not GW.

2. Warlord is not Warhammer.

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1. I'm sure on reflection that Reaper will do a good job of the Faction Books.

 

2. I spend my money where I like, not where some marketting guru tells me I should. I listen to grunge and alternative music, I never wear anything with a "label", and hype turns my stomach. You want to market to me? Make something worthy of my patronage. Reaper have done so to the extent that I'd seriously consider wearing a shirt with their logo on it. No-one else has, ever. I'm not a better person than anyone, I might add. If you like pop and nike, enjoy it- I don't however. I just thought I should make this point. Companies need money. It's their life-blood. But if they expect to survive on slick greasy rob-the-kids BS marketting models, they can bleed someone else, and I'll send my money to someone like Reaper, who as I see it, are focussed primarily on producing top-quality products in their field.

 

3. I am not rich enough to play CCGs, do not like CCGs, and if a game starts to look anything like anything to do with CCGs I will never ever play it or recommend it or press my FLGS to stock it. Did I mention that I hate CCGs? Oh, and I predicted CMGs as a kind of pessimistic black-humour joke and was greatly amused when they finally happened. If you like this stuff, fine, cool, enjoy it. I'll even play if you have a spare deck. But buy it? Not a chance.

 

4. I have no objection to Reaper expanding their line or the game, so long as balance is maintained and my 700 pts or so starting force still works in a 700 pts game. In other words: don't break the game. That's all I ask: that reptus skull breakers, for example, don't suddenly become a useless item or even (Eldar Harlequins anyone?) cease to exist altogether. That in fact, the Faction Book enhances my enjoyment of the game, should I choose to buy it, rather than ruining it wether I buy it or not.

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Regarding #4, which many others have mentioned, I see nothing in Reaper's track record that makes me think they would obsolete minis in future editions. In fact, with the CAV 2.0 announcement, it was made very clear from the get-go that no miniatures would be made obsolete.

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Regarding #4, which many others have mentioned, I see nothing in Reaper's track record that makes me think they would obsolete minis in future editions.  In fact, with the CAV 2.0 announcement, it was made very clear from the get-go that no miniatures would be made obsolete.

In going with Frosch's last statement, not only were we guaranteed that no models would be discontinued or made obsolete with CAV 2.0 they also said that some of the minis that people didnt use for whatever reason were going to get retooled and given a new role to make the more useful.

 

I am excited about the faction books coming out for Warlord and cant wait for the first one to hit the shelves. I will be buying them all just because I am a fluff junkie and i want to read them all. Plus you never know when I may decide to play that list. I am kinda flighty and change my mind alot!! ^_^

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Yep. I'm going to have a demo force for every faction but Darkspawn, so probably every faction book but Darkspawn is going to end up in my possession eventually.

 

Gaah, this demo thing is almost a second job. How do people manage it when they have kids?

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Regarding #4, which many others have mentioned, I see nothing in Reaper's track record that makes me think they would obsolete minis in future editions.  In fact, with the CAV 2.0 announcement, it was made very clear from the get-go that no miniatures would be made obsolete.

In going with Frosch's last statement, not only were we guaranteed that no models would be discontinued or made obsolete with CAV 2.0 they also said that some of the minis that people didnt use for whatever reason were going to get retooled and given a new role to make the more useful.

 

I am excited about the faction books coming out for Warlord and cant wait for the first one to hit the shelves. I will be buying them all just because I am a fluff junkie and i want to read them all. Plus you never know when I may decide to play that list. I am kinda flighty and change my mind alot!! ^_^

Jeremy, it would be helpful to the other people at GuardTower if you would make up your mind about which army you'll be playing ::P:

 

as far as "discontinuing minis" I am an avid Reaper fan, but they have made 2 Warlord models "obsolete" 14001 and 14034. Now, this is where Reaper has to remember they are running a business. If no one is buying the mini, they have every right to stop producing it. That doesn't mean that someone who already purchased it can't use it can they?

 

And I for one, can't wait for the faction books. I love fluff. It helps me figure out the motivations and background of my army and provides unifying information when I'm playing opponents.

 

debby ::D:

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Elandaria and Arganox were discontinued because they had sales figures that were worse than Dibbler's meat-pies. They never had Warlord stats, and therefore cannot be obsoleted.

 

Just picking a nit.

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