The Mini Making Business

[mrbuddylee]

Alright, a friend and I were talking about this with a local hobby store owner and I was wondering if anyone here could shed some light on the following questions for us.

 

1) I've heard that sculptor can make anywhere from $50-$500 per sculpt for a company. Is this correct? If this is correct, how many sculpts must one person sculpt to make a living? Do sculpters do non mini sculpts or have side jobs? It seems like there are only so many companies out there that are producing minis, I would think a person would run out of places to sell to eventually? In a following up question: Reaper seems to push out about 10-15 new minis a month. They seem to have 5-8 sculptors making sculpts for them, so that's about 3-5 sculpts per sculptor per month. Unless I was told completely wrong, that doesn't seem like much. Do sculptor's get a cut of the total sales of a mini?

 

2) It seems like the number of companies supplying high quality minis has really grown lately, but when talking with my gaming store owner, he said his total sales have been down 15% over the past year, and his mini sales make up about 25% of his business, he wasn't sure how down they were. So, with the new miniature companies firing up how can they expect to stay in business (Privateer Press, Magnificent Egos, Wargods of Aegolis, etc)?

 

3) It's hard because of the fact that every miniature company is privately traded, but what do you think the industry leaders (GW, Reaper,etc) sell each year? And what kind of overhead would they have per year? I just have a hard time grasping numbers.

 

4) How many people would a standard mini creation place employ? Do most cast their own minis or is there an industry casting company that many companies use?

 

5) Did Reaper create Warlord because their figs were selling well and they thought a game would increase sales or because their figure sales were stagnant and a game was a way to increase overall sales?

 

6) Why did Ral Partha go under? Weren't they really the biggest and best place at one time?

 

Anyways, I know it sounds like I'm going to start a miniature company or write an essay on economics, but I'm really just a curious person. Thanks for any responses!

[Dragon Snack]

Some random thoughts...

 

2) It seems like the number of companies supplying high quality minis has really grown lately, but when talking with my gaming store owner, he said his total sales have been down 15% over the past year, and his mini sales make up about 25% of his business, he wasn't sure how down they were.  So, with the new miniature companies firing up how can they expect to stay in business (Privateer Press, Magnificent Egos, Wargods of Aegolis, etc)?

Blind hope. Seriously, most of them probably won't stay in business. Internet sales may help some of them survive (or at least tread water), but most companies (all companies, not just mini companies) fail in their first year.

 

3) It's hard because of the fact that every miniature company is privately traded, but what do you think the industry leaders (GW, Reaper,etc) sell each year?  And what kind of overhead would they have per year?  I just have a hard time grasping numbers.

GW is publicly traded, you can look at their annual report or get a prospectus. They are listed as GAW (and have done very well in the past 2 years). Being British, you have to look on the London Stock Exchange for them.

 

4) How many people would a standard mini creation place employ?  Do most cast their own minis or is there an industry casting company that many companies use?

Reaper does it's own casting, as do many of the smaller companies.

[mrbuddylee]

GW is publicly traded, you can look at their annual report or get a prospectus.  They are listed as GAW (and have done very well in the past 2 years).  Being British, you have to look on the London Stock Exchange for them.

London Stock Exchange... Duh British company... should have dug a little deeper.

 

Thanks for the replies. Since small companies do their own casting, is it a cheap process? I always envisioned it had some high start up costs, but then again, a local brewery here bought all their equipment second hand, so I guess mini companies could do the same.

[Mengu]

I'll just say this, some sculptors make other sculpts as well, aside from gaming miniatures in the 25-45 mm scale, like for toy companies. Also most sculptors I know, work 60+ hr weeks.

 

There are many miniature companies to work for, and if you pay attention, you'll notice many of the sculptors don't exclusively work for one company (eg Garrity sculpts for at least a half dozen companies, and Klocke sculpts for at least 3 I know of).

 

You know it would be a lot easier to get answers to these questions, if you came to ReaperCon, Origins, or GenCon

[lordazaneal]

as far as i know ralpartha went under because they became a part of fasa and when fasa went so did they , but ralpartha is back now same guys just a new name ironwind metals

[ReaperDarryl]

5) Did Reaper create Warlord because their figs were selling well and they thought a game would increase sales or because their figure sales were stagnant and a game was a way to increase overall sales?

none of the above really, Warlord grew out of a want for a good skirmish level minatures game.

[Gus Landt]

1) $250-$350 per sculpt is most common. Most sculptors do have 'real' jobs. Generally producing 1 sculpt a week is a pretty good pace for sculpters

 

2) Most will go under, same as all the companies that jumped on the CCG bandwagon in the 90s, and the d20 bandwagon a few years ago.

 

3) Reaper has stated that they sell "millions of minis" a year, and go through 2000-3000 pounds of 'lead' a week. From what I understand, they are one of the biggest companies after GW.

 

4) 2-200

[Kheprera]

I think I made enough cookies for the Reaper employees, which was about five dozen (60).

 

Mmm... personal casting setup. I want one just to make one particular charm.

 

 

But then I could cast multiples, and sell them on ebay.

 

I could I could I could....

[Erion]

Someone reel Ary in from that casting setup, please.

 

[smokingwreckage]

There's an unofficial bio from Tom Meier out there SOMEWHERE on the net that sheds some light on a lot of these questions.

[Chairman Aeon]

2) It seems like the number of companies supplying high quality minis has really grown lately, but when talking with my gaming store owner, he said his total sales have been down 15% over the past year, and his mini sales make up about 25% of his business, he wasn't sure how down they were.  So, with the new miniature companies firing up how can they expect to stay in business (Privateer Press, Magnificent Egos, Wargods of Aegolis, etc)?

Uh, consulting one store doesn't make a trend. My local store has cleaned out older lines and is liquidating it's Confrontation stock to make more room for Reaper and Warmachine figs. The latter frequently ouytsells their GW stuff and Reaper is a steadty seller. What Can I conclude from this? Reaper and PP stuff sells well and Confrontation doesn't ... at my local store. Also my local store's sales were up this year. I'm close with another store owner, but his product mix is very different so it almost apples & oranges. Again even a handful of stores in a particular area often only shows regional trends.

 

And some companies, like sculptors, are side jobs. Your hobby is buying miniatures and their hobby is making them. But there is no good data really on the health of the industry. A Canadian distributor is waiting to place an order with Old Glory. He only has $500 of stuff to order and unless he places a larger order he'll be last in the queue. That's a single distributor wanted $500 at wholesale and Old Glory doesn't have time to deal with him unless his order is more. So either Old Glory is crazy, which can never be ruled out, or they have larger customers who do better numbers that get done first.

 

6) Why did Ral Partha go under?  Weren't they really the biggest and best place at one time?

 

Ral Partha didn't go under. They were part of FASA when the latter wound down their business. The decline of Ral Partha to me was when they focussed more on their own game lines than generic "D&D" miniatures. I started to buy less since I didn't need a whole army of Evil Scarecrows and Reaper was coming into its own ... producing "D&D" miniatures. The other thing I think that happened was a shift from 25mm to 30mm figures. The classic Ral Partha stuff while scaled well is very small compared to DHA figs and more importantly Warhammer figs. (Not to imply that RP buyers switched the GW figs, but rather the industry shifted to a larger figure size.) Iron Wind Metals is essentially the old Ral Partha.

 

Iain.

[Flit]

There's an unofficial bio from Tom Meier out there SOMEWHERE on the net that sheds some light on a lot of these questions.

Thunderbolt Mountian Home Page

 

This is the site you are thinking of. It has answers to several of the questions asked. Especially the ones about who sculpters work for and some insider stuff on Ral Partha. Plus a bunch of really nice minis.

[Heisler]

To get any meaningful data you would need stores that have POS systems be willing to give you data on their sales. Although they are usuall willing to talk in vague terms about being up 10% or down 20% getting specific on something can be like pulling teeth, especially if you are trying to get it from stores in the same regional area. They will probably feel like you are thinking about opening your own store.

[mrbuddylee]

Thank you all for your responses, I appreciate you all taking the time to humor me and answer my questions!

[EdPugh]

>>I've heard that sculptor can make anywhere from $50-$500 per sculpt for a company. Is this correct?<<

 

Price entirely depend on the work required. A large model with little overall detail can cost less than a small one packed with detail. On average a basic 25mm humanoid sculpt runs 350-400 on the open market.

 

>>If this is correct, how many sculpts must one person sculpt to make a living? Do sculpters do non mini sculpts or have side jobs? <<

 

That is up to you To drive around in a Rolls Royce, you better sculpt very good and veryt fast, but this is true for anything.

 

>>Unless I was told completely wrong, that doesn't seem like much. Do sculptor's get a cut of the total sales of a mini?<<

 

Some do that with some companies. We only purchase as a work for hire so no royalties are ever paid.

 

>>>It seems like the number of companies supplying high quality minis has really grown lately, but when talking with my gaming store owner, he said his total sales have been down 15% over the past year, and his mini sales make up about 25% of his business, he wasn't sure how down they were. So, with the new miniature companies firing up how can they expect to stay in business (Privateer Press, Magnificent Egos, Wargods of Aegolis, etc)?<<<

 

Staying in business involves a lot more than sales. We literally started in one half of a 2 car garage in 1993. At that time miniature sales from any company other than GW and Partha were really not much in the adventure game industry.

 

>>>It's hard because of the fact that every miniature company is privately traded, but what do you think the industry leaders (GW, Reaper,etc) sell each year? And what kind of overhead would they have per year? I just have a hard time grasping numbers.<<<

 

I'm not going to get into dollar numbers etc but I can pass along some Reaper trivia for 2004. On average we cast 98,000 miniatures or pieces a week and pumped 6,500 bottles of paint a week.

 

>>>How many people would a standard mini creation place employ? Do most cast their own minis or is there an industry casting company that many companies use?<<<

 

I do not know about other companies but our current full time staff level is 24 people, 1 cat and 2 lizards.

 

>>>Did Reaper create Warlord because their figs were selling well and they thought a game would increase sales or because their figure sales were stagnant and a game was a way to increase overall sales?<<<

 

The plan from the start was to release a game. The models in the market for a year in advance help lay the ground work and demand for the game.

 

>>>Why did Ral Partha go under? Weren't they really the biggest and best place at one time?<<<

 

Yes they were the biggest and the best in their day. In a nutshell they were very dependent on two licenses. Dungeons & Dragons and Battletech. All I know was that they lost both license in the same year and then FASA turned around and purchased them.

 

>>>Anyways, I know it sounds like I'm going to start a miniature company or write an essay on economics, but I'm really just a curious person. Thanks for any responses!<<<

 

All I can tell you is what I tell everyone else. The only people I know of that are getting rich becasue of what the do are Doctors.

 

 

 

Best,