nadinbrzezinski Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 About special rules, scenario rules et al got me thinking... so with no further adieu... Tournaments: From time to time Assault Officers and players will want to run a tournament at a local store. There are several ways to go about this, with the simplest just saying bring a certain amount of points and lets play. Some feel that this method will lead to some abuse, so what follows are three types of tournaments for CAV. Open Invitational. Requirements: Bring a force, up to a certain point number, with absolutely no limits. This type has no limits on what players want to bring to the table, but Judges should be aware that force selection will determine the winner. Alternatively the Open Invitational can use any scenario rules that the Host announces with at least a month in advance. The list should be posted at the venue so players can plan accordingly. For example if the host wants no scenario rules, it will say such. If the host decides that he wants to allow The Few The Proud, then he or she will have to list such. If the Host decides to allow all scenario rules as published in Journal of Recognitions, again this has to be announced. This will affect force selection by players. Warmaster The Judge sets a limit for a single section of CAVs and players do a four for all. Essentially the only limit to this tournament is that only CAVs are allowed. Though any special rules that Judges want to impose, have to be listed, again a month in advance. The Storm Combined Arms Event. This has been discussed in another thread, so I will just mention the major element to it: combined arms. Now here are the important points, what a judge decides to use, or not, must be made clear to potential participants. Moreover, this will allow judges flexibility in determining what fits local conditions. Judging. All tourneys should also take into account sportsmanship and force selection. Players should be encouraged to judge their opponents on sportsmanship and force selection and whether it was fun to play with this opponent or not. Moreover they should also be able to say whether they would want to play with this opponent or not. The point spread for the Open invitational comes as follows. Victory 10 points Sportsmanship on a scale from 1-10, with each one of them being a point Painting and conversion of the army again 1-10 There should be at least three battles with a maximum score of 90, with the winner being determined by whoever accrues the most points. Oh and a special mention to the best player from a sportsmanship PoV should be awarded. Oh and the player who looses the game gets five points. This is just a very early draft coming from The Few, The Proud… thread. Please take it apart and find the holes… since I am sure it has some… to say the very least. I mean this is as green as they get! Nadin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Froggy the Great Posted January 13, 2003 Moderator Share Posted January 13, 2003 The Painting score assumes that you have a GW-like crowd, where fielding an unpainted army is the social equivalent of proclaiming yourself a 13 year-old or "unsportsmanlike". I'd much rather people play the game and have fun than agonize over their paint jobs. Besides, since most of the time, people in my tournaments use my minis anyway, the point is rather moot. That said, in the tournament last week, everyone who brought their own force had it painted, and in one case, better than mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulyss Brisonne Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 Being a GW player myself I see no problem with making people paint their armies- at gunpoint if that's what it takes... Actually, while I think that painted figures are a fantastic addition to the game, we've all been there- that time when you've not quite got it all done. So, I would suggest that each player can select one opponent that stood out from a painting/conversion point of view. That person gets a couple of additional points at the end of Judging. The points should spread across the group based on who played who, with multiple awards going to the outstanding armies. This way, painting help, but you aren't too penalised for having not made it. Actually- getting players to award sportsmanship to opponents might work too. Nice system though- if I ever find enough players (ie more than 2) locally I'll definitely use something very similar to this. Oh- mentioning Warmaster- does anyone know if part of COG will be an actual "live" Warmaster event? It would be sooooo cool! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nadinbrzezinski Posted January 13, 2003 Author Share Posted January 13, 2003 Yeah I can see both sides. The only reason why I would encourage people to paint, but tailor it to local conditions, is that a painted army helps to sell the game. But doing the public award might be a better idea. Nadin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrome Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 "Open Invitational" is contradictary. You should just stick with Open if you're going to use a name like that. Use Invitational if its going to be something like a COG-member only game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulcatcher Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 How about some kind of "stock" standard tournament type? No upgrades. No customization. All data cards straight out of the book. Use of scenario rules could vary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeneki Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 I like the idea of stock units only, heck, it's the way I play anyway. What about infantry though? People really should be able to take missles/mortars/whatever on their infantry imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadkill Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 LOL Painting at gunpoint... that doesnt seem conducive to good detail, I mean with the sweating crying and shaking... :D I like stock machines. I normally play REG/REG stocks anyway.. fast games and it gives you a good idea how to run each "machine".. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Froggy the Great Posted January 14, 2003 Moderator Share Posted January 14, 2003 I don't like theidea of stock weapons only. Weapon swaps are so expensive that I think they're their own limiting factor, and if someone wants to pay the points, let them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nadinbrzezinski Posted January 14, 2003 Author Share Posted January 14, 2003 Hmm good idea on both... having stocks only no upgrades will allow for one type of tourney. The idea behind this is to be as inclusive as posible. I know that the first tourney locally will probably just be a "stock" tourney, and let the games begin... I need to set the date though and as to infantry, well if I cannot upgrade the CAVs, just to be consistent I should not be able to upgrade anything else... though I can foresee personal taste and conditions. Hmmm though I do like the idea. Lets see about a compromise... you can upgrade up to a certain number of units and changing the weapons is the upgrade? Nadin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nadinbrzezinski Posted January 14, 2003 Author Share Posted January 14, 2003 LOL Painting at gunpoint... that doesnt seem conducive to good detail, I mean with the sweating crying and shaking... :D I like stock machines. I normally play REG/REG stocks anyway.. fast games and it gives you a good idea how to run each "machine".. Well the logic behind the painted units is that painted armies at three foot standard, aka they look fine when yuo look at them from the edge of the table... just don't pick them up.. helps to sell the game. Now what GW requires, having played in their tourneys is 3 colors... for CAV I can forsee only doing two colors, a base coat and a cockpit. Those of us who detail like nuts and use transfers just make the thing look even better. Though I agree, there are sections in the country where requiring people to paint is a turn off... cough san diego cough. Now if this becomes a national standard from the word go... as it was with GW... then we also have the WYSIWYG, what yuo see is what you get... extra armor, model it... things like that. Now Good things to this... some of the conversions will look awsome... and some of them paintjobs will look out of this world. This helps to sell the game to potencial players. Never ignore the power of a well painted army. From a sales perspective having to paint and provide your own helps in that department as well. It is a shoehorn for sales. Negative things: Well some folks are intimidated by the painting side of the hobby. For the record is the one I enjoy the most. But since they are intimidated they will be, worst case, be naturally excluded. Some folks will start screaming ugly things about Reaper... Now these are the advantages and disadvantages that occur to me right now. That said, in some ways this should be left to the local judge discretion. Now the smallest possible, so far to do is the Warmaster. Requiring people to provide and paint four minis is not that crazy. Also if we try to limit the size of a force to tops 12 minis per side will also make it a fast running game. More as I think of things here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulcatcher Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 I guess I hadn't considered infantry when I said "stock only." To be honest, I could go either way on that particular question. Plus, I'm just recommending stock only as one particular standard tournament format. I'm not saying all tournaments should be run that way. But so long as we're going to develop a list of "standard formats" I really thing one of them ought to be pure stock (with or without infantry upgrades, I don't care.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nadinbrzezinski Posted January 16, 2003 Author Share Posted January 16, 2003 I agree with you, and this is why I am very open to what kinds of tournaments we all want to see. Personally the first Tourney I intend to run locally will be the Warmaster format or Stock up to 4,000 per side... it reflects the way we play here... very well. It might get some people to even get some CAVs, oh and painted minis might be a good idea. Nadin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulyss Brisonne Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 Yeah... or how about each participant gets a number of upgrade "slots" which can be used as they wish- so while one player might spread a couple of upgrades across their force, another might kit out one unit to a ridiculous level ( and watch it promptly get splattered no doubt). This would give a way of representing your play style while still having to make some tactical decisions about what will work best, and add to the process of designing a tourney army. The painting thing will always be tricky- I agree that when your game in public you accept that in some ways you are an envoy for that game so a painted force should be a requirement. It's enlightened self interest- if every player attracted just one new gamer through a fantastic gaming experience with nice armies and scenery, the new business would guarantee more goodies for your favouritegame in the long run. But somepeople don't like to/can't paint. Perhaps, as per GW, the tournament could feature a minimum standards guidleine, and even include some instructions- a web or flyer based "how to get a good basic look for CAV" wouldn't be hard. I reckon that to create a decent basic level CAV paint job is probably really simple- i.e. spray on base colour, paint wepons and cockpit black, drybrush weapons metallic and add a couple of blobs of alternate colour for accents. Not great, but workable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nadinbrzezinski Posted January 16, 2003 Author Share Posted January 16, 2003 So here is a working draft, incorporating all your ideas... and let me know if I am missing anybody. Open Tourney: This tourney is organized to fit the local play style of CAV players. An upper point limit must be announced a month in advance as well as the Scenario Rules that are to be used. In general the Open could take one of several formats: Open Stock, no upgrades. Open Stock, up to 600 poins of upgrades per 2,000 points or fraction of. Open with scenarios, no upgrades. Open, Scenarios upgrades as listed in the open stock. Warmaster Tournament. Painting should be highly sugested \ required by the organizer depending on local conditions, to two tone standard minimum. Judging. Each victory should garner the winner 40 points, while loosing 20 points. Painting is up to the players Sportmanship rated on on individual forms, questions to be asked on this forms are as follows, and are to a maximum of 40. 10 points per question. Was your oponent fun? Was his \her force balanced? Would you play your oponent again? What was your oponent's knowledge of the rules? Ok, how does this sound folks? Is this inclusive enough and does it literally take into account many styles of play? Nadin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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