Jump to content

CAV 2 Closed Beta v1.1


Recommended Posts

Some comments & questions from our games last night:


Table size: We played on a 4'x6' board going the long way. Things are still cramped side-to-side with 2500 points, but 6' long feels about right. I still think 6'x8' or 8'x8' is required to really use the ranges and scanning options -- otherwise most of it's useless. We also came up with a range suggestion -- since anything outside of infantry never has a target outside the second range band, maybe decrease all ranges by 4-6" and halve the size of range bands outside the first (print ranges as 28/14). That could also help differentiate the abilities of different weapons -- maybe missiles (and IF) have range bands of 36/36, while PBGs have ranges like 28/12 (fluff: decreased maximum range due to atmospheric effects). Regardless, we feel the 4'x4' to 4'x6' recommendation in the rules to be insufficient. If the writers feel that 4'x4' needs to be included to avoid intimidating people without much space, include it but with the caveat that such a small size only works for games under 1500 points/side.


FIST: This is the first time we played with strike missions with allocations greater than 1 (using the "group pool" of missions that anyone with FIST/x can use, if x is big enough). These things had better be expensive -- we figure Battery Strike at maybe 150 points (three six-inch diameter templates, touching!), unless you're on a board bigger than 4'x6'.


Is there a max range for calling in FIST strikes? (We think no, but with an increased drift range when outside, say, 32", as per our previous suggestions for increased IF drift.) Should LoS be required? (We're leaning toward yes, except for cruise missiles.) The Orbital Pinpoint Strike is the only one that explicitly requires it.


The group pool of strike missions is realistic and we like it, but it makes some things (like the Terran ability of FIST/1 for everybody) very powerful. We're also thinking that infantry shouldn't be able to call strikes from within a transport.



Does a level 1 hill/wall provide cover for a gunship? It does by my reading of the rules, but it seems odd unless it's popping up/dropping down (which should waste some movement). Perhaps there should be a "hull down" non-combat action that gives you half movement and you are considered one size smaller for cover purposes.


Point blank should be a penalty for IF (except grenades).


Masters of Energy is too powerful, at least when playing a force made primarily of Koda Works units with Deflect. To drop it in line with the other abilities, give the player a choice of gaining Deflect for friendlies or ignoring Deflect on enemies, but not both.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 181
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Most of the feedback has been incorporated and addressed one way or another. Beta v1.2 is still being worked over for streamlining issues. However, we need more army SA testing.


Here's round two of the army SAs (remember to test using the Strike Pool modification to Allocation proposed in a previous post).



<3>Masters of Energy

All Adonese Models ignore the Deflect SA on enemy Models as well as gain a +1 ECM, including Infantry.


<3>Campaign Play Bonus: Cultural Sensitivity

When a Sector's possession changes to Adon, the Adonese do not suffer the increased Resistance that other armies do. Sectors fully surrounded by (i.e. touched only by) other Adon controlled Sectors have their Resistance value reduced by half (round normally).



<3>Convert or Die

As per Mercy from Warlord Crusader's Army Abilities. Functions only if the Malvernis Model is within the First Range Band from the target. This Army SA does not work against Psyros.



For every full five hundred points (500) in play per player (for instance a game where each player can take up to 2000 points would result in 4 where a game with 1750 points  only grants 3) a Malvernis player may declare a Model in the Task Force to be an Inquisitor. An Inquisitor Model may be any Model (Infantry Models assume one of the squad is the Inquisitor, Vehicles, CAVs, or Gunships have an Inquisitor as part of the crew). Inquisitors must be clearly denoted as such (either a token or a slightly different paint scheme). Inquisitors gain the Prestige and Feared SA. Additionally, any friendly Malvernis Model that is within a 12” radius of the Inquisitor gains the Stubborn SA. Finally, Inquisitors are never Shaken though they may be Suppressed as normal.


<3>Campaign Play Bonus: Guided by Khardullis' hand

All controlled Campaign Sectors grant Malvernis forces +2 Resources and +1 Supply at the cost a -2 Influence.



<3>Unified Manufacturing

In an all Rach force, all KODA Works Models gain the Rugged Special Ability. Models that already have the Rugged Special Ability gain a +2 to their Repair rolls.


<3>Storm Children

In an all Rach force, the cultural peer pressure and psychological conditioning of the Rach Military Caste grant all Rach Models a +1 CCV and +1 Dis.


<3>Campaign Play Bonus: Impose Caste System

The Empire brings Rach colonists to a sector to assist the military in controlling the world. Resistance is eliminated by mass forced resettlements of the natives to other worlds. The sector may eliminate its Resistance rating in exchange for dividing its Influence value in half (round normally).



<3>Integrated Tank Doctrine

Up to two Models of Model Type Vehicle/Tank may be added to any Armor, Mechanized Infantry, Rifle, Specialist, Light Armor, Close Fire Support, or Scout Platoon. These extra Models may take the Platoon over its normal Model maximum. However these “bonus tanks” may be purchased at a discount of 25% points (round decimals normally). Only bonus tanks receive this discount! For example only an Armor Platoon with six Models, of which at least two are tanks, save the points on the two tanks.



Ritterlich roll Discipline Checks with a +2 bonus.


<3>The Hunter's Edge

The Ritterlich are masters at controlling the ebb and flow of battle. The Rach are more famous for fighting, but the Ritterlich are famous for winning wars. Some credit the Ritterlich tendency for an almost empathic understanding of their foes, others credit their military academies and quality of their officers. Ritterlich players gain a token or card that they retain. At the beginning of each turn, the card or token is reset. Once during the upcoming Action Phase, the Ritterlich player may activate the “Hunter's Edge” and whatever Initiative Card that was just drawn must be put back into the deck at the bottom. In effect, the Ritterlich can force their opponent to bury their own initiative card. The card is not discarded, simply delayed until later in the turn. Once the Hunter's Edge is used, the token or card is turned face down until the start of the next turn.


<3>Campaign Play Bonus: Hunts

Sectors controlled by the Ritterlich grant +1 Supply over and above their normal rating. The only exception to this is on worlds determined to be without indigenous animal life in which case the Ritterlich may instead gain +1 Influence.



<3>Bonds of Knighthood

Templar Armor, Light Armor, Scout, and Specialist Platoons may reduce their minimum Model requirements by one to a minimum of one. Required numbers of Infantry Models are unaffected. Thus a Templar Armor Platoon may have 3-4 Models instead of only 4. This allows Templars to be more responsive and gain more Initiative Cards in an Initiative Deck for the same number of Models than other Task Forces.


<3>Campaign Play Bonus: Velvet Fist

Templars may redistribute wealth and choose to suffer a -1 Supply to gain a +1 Influence. Additionally, the Templars may choose to suffer an additional -1 Supply to gain +1 Resources as well. If the Sector is providing -2 Supply, +1 Influence and +1 Resources then the Sector's Resistance drops back to its default value.




Terran soldiers are among the most well informed and well networked soldiers on the battlefield. This results in two primary effects:

1) All Terran Models are considered to have FIST/1 and may call upon Strikes in the Task Force's Strike Pool. Models that already have FIST gain no further benefit. Strikes to actually go into the Strike Pool must still be purchased with Points as normal.

2) Terrans have an unlimited Cohesion distance. The exception to this is when determining if a Terran will Retreat. Only when a Terran is in a situation that gains it a second Shaken Token, check for Cohesion as normal.


<3>Well Supported Operations

Unless expressly denied Strikes by the scenario, Terrans may have up to 33% of their points invested in Strikes instead of the usual 25%. Round normally.


<3>Air Power

A Terran Task Force may take up to two Flight Secondary Platoons per Primary Platoon.


<3>Campaign Play Bonus: Underdog Sympathy

Neutral Sectors that are taken over by Terrans; Neutral meaning they were not previously controlled by another major Faction (Exception: Sectors previously held by the Psyros are considered Neutral for purposes of this Special Ability), do not suffer from increased Resistance. Sectors that are controlled by Terrans and are taken over by another major Faction (including Psyros) adds 10% to any Resistance (round normally) rating the Sector retains as Terran forces go underground to help local Resistance continue to fight the new occupiers.  If Terrans regain control of the Sector, this 10% Resistance boost goes away.



<3>Gain access to Psyro Models

Psyro Models are forbidden in Freelance and non-Psyro armies. Psyro Task Forces may choose from Psyro Model lists freely.


<3>Campaign Play Bonus: Nothing Wasted

Psyros may convert a Sector's Influence into either Resources or Supplies. If a Sector's Influences rating is zero, then the Resistance of that Sector is halved (round normally).

Link to comment
Share on other sites



Sometime next week we anticipate CAV to be effectively "done" with Closed Beta and we will move into Open Beta so all of you who have been waiting patiently (and some not so patiently... you know who you are ::): ) will be able to take a look under the hood and take CAV2 out and kick the tires.


We realize that the beta process is not for everyone. Unformatted text is often extremely difficult to "slog through" and can be rather unpleasant. Most of us would rather have a nice book with pictures and thing we take for granted like indentation, tables, etc. However, for those willing and anxious to undertake the process, they will have the opportunity to do so.


As I have said before, there are two kinds of people that help with the beta-type programs. First, "Beta Testers" who primarily look at mechanics and systems and testing variables against other variables and making proposals and suggestions for change based on their experiences. Second, "Beta Players" who primarily provide "gut-reaction" feedback on feel, style, and often are best at providing other viewpoints on mechanics from a non-technical point of view. Of course, most of us fit somewhere in between these two and we flip-flop depending on our mood.


Closed Beta is primarily for "Beta Tester" types with feedback from "Beta Players" taking a more secondary role, Open Beta usually reverses that.


Primary Goals of Open Beta


Primarily "Beta Playing" Goals

1) Wishlist

~ "I play (faction) and it would be really cool if my army had a (a model with so-and-so SA)."

~ "There needs to be (some type of model/unit) in CAV2."


2) Army Factional Ability Suggestions

~ "In my mind I always envisioned the (army) as having or being able to (fill in the blank)."


Primarily "Beta Testing" Goals

1) Consistency, Loophole closing, catching legacy items from earlier incarnations

~ Reading through the rules and making sure they all mesh. As discovered with Warlord, sometimes legacy items from older versions of Beta are retained because they were not caught even after multiple editors.


2) Army Factional Ability Testing

~ "I played (army 1) against (army 2) and (this is what happened)"


Shared Goals

1) Getting feedback from a wider group

~ Get multiple points of view


2) Testing of the Optional Rules and Scenario Rules in the Appendix


3) Reporting

~ This forum will be where feedback is read, discussed, etc.

~ All Open Beta battles may be logged and played for points at ReaperGames

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Prior to the opening of the beta, BL did not accept CAV 2 activities for LSRs. Once CAV 2 goes to an Open Beta Format (As indicated above) you will be able to submit your CAV 2 Beta events as LSRs provided they meet all other normal criteria for LSRs. (In order to qualify as a demo it must be open to all comers, etc. etc.)


You will have to mention in the notes of your LSR whether the CAV activity was supporting CAV 1 or CAV 2.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Funny you mention that. The original incarnation for the mechanic was:

Firing while performing a Run and Gun action suffers a -1 base penalty with an additional -1 for each weapon being fired. The total penalty is subtracted from each Attack.


Example: A Model performs a Run and Gun firing only a single weapon. The attack suffers a -2 penalty. Another Model performs a Run and Gun firing 3 weapons (two PBGs and sacrificing its non-combat action to gain salvo/1). Each of the three attacks for the second model will be conducted with a -4 penalty.

After demoing and playing CAV 1 a few times last weekend, I really have to say how lame I think Run and Gun is. I'm sitting at a table explaining to a group of kids how technology is advanced enough in the CAV universe that neither the speed of the attacking CAV nor its target comes into play when resolving an attack. Then suddenly it pops into my head that, yes, in CAV 2, it now does. :unsure:


Forgive me for being blunt, but can anyone explain to me the logic behind the rule, other than "Its doing something outside of the base rules, so it should have a penalty. And lets add a one-shot limitation too, just for good measure."


I could possibly buy the fact that only one weapon could be fired due to the energy drain from the extra movement, but the -2 penalty makes no sense at all. At least not unless we're going to say that the extra movement is just too much for the CAVs targetting computers to handle now. In that case, we'd better start giving Gunships a -4 to hit b/c they're moving like 3 times that speed.


Only one shot would be OK. All weapons and a -2 penalty would be slightly less easy to live with, but with only 1 shot and -2 penalty, I don't think Run and Gun will ever get used.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm putting this second gripe in its own thread, specifically so that it gets noticed seperately from the other one. I was explaining CAV 2 to some people last weekend (who have played CAV before) and when I got to the part about Salvo and having to sacrifice movement in order to fire a simple DFM pack, the response was unanimously "Huh?" Which is actually what my first thought was when I read the rule as well, but I never spoke up.


So I'm speaking up now (yeah, now that the closed beta is almost finished, but better late than never). Why exactly is it that the Wizzo (or is it only a pilot now?) has absolutely no problem firing two very large guns at a target, but if he wants to push another button and fire a single missle at the same target, the CAV has to stop moving and stand stock still?


These two issues are the kinds of questions that we're going to have to be answering in a few days when the beta goes public and again in a few months when the game hits stores, so I thought they should be settled now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One thing I've never liked about CAV Actual was the whole no speed defense.


Ok I understand that CAVs have a big nasty computer that can lock on to moving targets... but doesn't the other guy have an equally nasty target that makes it hard to lock on to. Saint's Logic would dictate that the two systems (the TL and the ESM) would cancel each other out leaving chance to the skill of the gunner versus the pilot.


Anyway on to the matter on hand... the Run N' Gun... perhaps someone should test out Spartan's suggestion about -2 to main guns and -4 if salvo is also used.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I also have to kick in with the Run and Gun debate. The defender has the advantage given the base rule. I can Def fire at you whith no penalty while you have a -2. If the attacker were allowed to fire both main wpns that would be different but with just one I have to agree that I don't know how often it would be used. The fluff argument seems to have some merit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Create New...