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When Reaper creates tabletop "pen and paper" Roleplaying Games (as opposed to a pure miniatures wargame) you would like to see Reaper...  

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  1. 1. When Reaper creates tabletop "pen and paper" Roleplaying Games (as opposed to a pure miniatures wargame) you would like to see Reaper...

    • use the OGL System (like Dungeons and Dragons and other d20 products except modified as needed)
    • use the d20 License (like Dungeons and Dragons with few modifications)
    • use a homegrown system primarily based on RAGE
    • use a homegrown system designed for Roleplaying primarily and similarities to RAGE secondary
    • use GURPS
    • not make a "pen and paper" roleplaying game and focus on miniatures based wargames

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But when they buy a figure, they see the Dark heaven name, see the DHL logo. It's called branding and it works. A big part of branding is actually subliminal. Most people who buy Reaper figs, but may not be nut cases about it like us, will still see that logo and associate it with the DHL mini line, even if they don't know what it means. That's why proper branding and protecting and promoting your brand is so important to a company's success.

Branding is very important and its discussed almost everyday here at work (I provide tech support for a sales support unit). Branding by itself does not sell product. Especially in the very jaded and segmented RPG market. So when speaking of branding do you remember the Reaper D20 module that was published? The cover was actually in a format similiar to the card on the blisters and it listed the DHL mini for each character and the NPCs (I'm not positive about the NPCs). Even though it pushed the Reaper Dark Heaven brand and since I never saw any follow up modules, I would suggest that it did not have a big impact on the market despite its branding.


Brand alone is not going to sell an RPG and the market is truly glutted with RPG products. I don't think it even matters what system is used; D20, RAGE, GURPS, ICE, TRI-STAT, HERO, or AEG. Something will have to be done on a national level that is going to really make people sit up and anticipate its arrival. Much like Eberron did for WOTC, which is the last fantasy setting that I can think of that had lots of people talking about it.


It certainly can be done, but I think it would drive Reaper's focus away from its strength which is the production of miniatures. Now, perhaps, the real answer is a licensing deal. Let one of the established manufacturers like Mongoose or Green Ronin or the like handle the writing and production, with Reaper feeding them the ideas and background they want to present.

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I am torn. I like gaming systems. I mean I don't play rummy with my poker or monopoly rules. I don't use my dominoes(42) to play go fish, although I could.


The benefits of d20 or even OGL is the familiarity with the system. It might do really well. But who can say. As it has been stated, there are and have been lots of sourcebooks/games/settings for d20 that have tanked. While a few have a solid following.


If Reaper were to use its own system, what would be the selling points for it?


If it were to use d20(or any existing system) other than having ties to its wargames, what would be unique about it?


Conversion notes for PC's to the RAGE system? Unique spells? Characters? Classes? Feats?


How would the Reaper setting(s) be different enough to complete and stand out in the d20 market?


Just playing devils advocate, but those are questions I might ask if I were to buy a copy.


Would there be an NPC write up for named mini's, i.e. Sir Malcom, Arnise, Judas Bloodspire, Ivar Silverfist and the like?


New Gods, with the possibility of new domains?

New Weapons?

New Races?


Just alot to consider.


But as a whole, I think that d20 either OGL or other is a way to consider. Only because, I know from my group, it is more likely they would play a d20 game than have to "learn a new system and buy new books". Thats the biggest argument I hear about playing other gaming systems.


Go figure.


Just my two cents.



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The biggest problem with NOT using d20 is exactly as jhilahd just stated it. What is in it for someone who is going to be forced to learn a new system to play an Adonese campaign? The biggest problem companies faced in the late 80's through the 90's is that everyone was trying out new systems, and a lot of great background source material got squandered on the system wars. As much as I love to root for the little guys, WotC's engine is an 800-ton gorilla right now.


I can see the media campaign now.


You've fought battles with our miniatures for years. . .


Now, come get them where they LIVE.


Dark Heaven from Reaper Miniatures.

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I guess I would envision something like Kalamar, where it's a campaign setting and extension of the D&D Core rather than a whole new game. It's also a lot easier to develop this way because the rules are already written and tested. I don't know, I'm still leaning toward D20.

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well just how different would Adon be from a standard generic D&D world?


I'm thinking make up the game mechanics for a RAGE RPG and add appendics for playing the setting as a D20/GURPs/ whatever. Outside of few new prestige classes and accouple feats, I don't really see need to create any major changes to the game mechanics of D20 and from what I remember about GURPs was it was easily adaptable to any setting.


The more I think about it I really like the idea of a RAGE RPG system. Especially it it keeps the Damage Track system. It would definately make players think twice about getting into fights.

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Every page you save space printing rules on, can be used to detail Adon, and can be used to introduce Adon specific materials (Spells, Prestige CLasses, feats, unique races, unique monsters).


To put it blankly, I would buy a D&D/D20 supplement for sure, any other system I would have reservations about buying. I have bought a ton of rules sets, but I've only actually played a handful. The older I get the less disposable income I have, I'm much more likely to pick up a rules set for a system I already play, than something entirely new.


I would support the idea of a RAGE based machine, but I don't think it would be as commercially successful.


Point blank, Reaper doesn't have to sell the product to us, we're already Reaper fanboys/girls, Reaper has to produce a product that will sell to a more general RPG/mini gamer crowd.

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Perhaps that would work, but I'd say most people don't have that sort of time to invest in a games system. I know I'd rather specifically spend time on adventure creation than having to create Adon specific materials that fit the background. I'm willing to bet it would be a turn off for many people.


Better to pick a system, devote everything to that, and people who want to play using a different system can then do the conversion work if they feel it is worthwhile to make it fit their system, rather than making everyone do the work.


WEll to make everyone happy, just release a book of fluff...we are all experienced gamers we can convert to our system of choice! :)



And the big problem with your statement is that, no, not everyone is an experienced gamer, maybe alot of people here are, but I know alot of RPGers who are fairly new to such games. They want something they can pick up and use.

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I'm surprised that Reaper is interested in making an RPG, but if their miniatures quality is any guide, it'd be a good one.


I'm firmly in the "not another system" camp. The Powered By GURPS license to which I preseume the poll refers is attractive; it worked very well for the Hellboy RPG, and GURPS in general I find to be more character-driven than anything D20. Classless would be the way to go, IMO. Reaper's minis aren't cookie-cutter, and their RPG system should be, either.


D20's much more popular than GURPS, of course, and free. Perhaps a compromise via the OGL, whereby the "best" D20 mechanics are preserved, while character progression and magic are freed to match flavor of a default setting?


I'd be more likely to buy an OGL game than a D20 game, but my preference would be GURPS, for its near-infinite detail in character generation.

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If the art, layout, and fluff can be as consistently as high as the Warlords main book, i.e. using well known artists like Wayne Reynolds, then d20-OGL is the way to go.


The game needs to have a heavy focus on why you'd want to role play in the setting.


1. What are the major antagonist?


2. What is the planned product support?


3. What are the major plot lines?


4. How is the setting cannon going to be handled? Is it a hands off where everything is relatively frozen or like Forgotten Realms where heavy plots and timeline updates are mandatory as the setting goes through numerous changes (and based on Warlords events, that's a real possiblity.)


Before the RPG even comes to the table, there needs to be a complelling reason to play it and if there isn't, then a book of art/fluff is probably the way to go. If there is and the resources to develop it can be maintained, then PDF first and then print witht d20, is in my opinion, the way to go. I understand that it's not everyone's cup of tea, but Rolemaster has been supplanted by Harp by it's own Company and with GURPS, the time to update it would've been when 4th ed came out.

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I forget what I voted, but here's my current view on it. I'd say let it sit for a while- wait for Dark Heavens and Warlord, and Reaper in general, to become better known. Then release the RPG. At the moment, however, there's simply not enough people who know about Reaper for it to work well.

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