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So is it good?


lstormhammer
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Another thing you have to do is let go of your nostalga. Watch the prequels with your child eyes and then watch the classics with your adult eyes. Nitpick them like you do the new movies and you will find the same general "problems" and the same less than stellar preformances. Honestly Hammel is no better than Christiensen (sp?).

I believe I said the exact same things yesterday to some people who were complaining that Anakin was a bad actor.

 

Can I get an Amen!?

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Nope, no amen. It's a rubbish arguement.

 

I loved star wars as a kid - when I saw it through kids eyes.

 

When I grew up, I loved star wars as an adult - looking at it through adult eyes.

 

I see all the flaws in the original series - and they are OK.. they are organic - the important thing is that Lucas takes a ton of great elements from mythology, samuari films, spaghetti westerns and war movies and sticks them together to create a new way of telling an old story. Jedi is where I feel that Lucas turns to the dark side of story telling, in which his ego gets in the way of his sensibility. The Wachowski brothers fall into the same trap with the Matrix films. They created something wonderful that people love and find all sorts of layers and depth to (sometimes this best comes out when you aren't trying) - so when they go at it again for the next round, they stive to create something that has the same majesty and they try to inject it with so much meaning that it just falls flat on it's face.

 

I honestly care what happens to the characters. How upset was everyone when Han got frozen in carbonite? Now how upset were people with anything happened to Anakin? I didn't feel an attachment to the characters because they were so forced. It was like highschoolers doing a shakespeare play and trying to put such weight and meaning behind EVERY SINGLE STUPID LINE becuase after all.. it's Shakespeare, and he's the master! Everything must be important. They don't realize that Shakespeare's brilliance comes from his playing with language, and something silly and campy is exactly what is needed to breathe life into a character.

 

Lucas has done the unimaginable and emasculated Darth Vader. Those who have seen the movie know what I'm talking about. I personally think it would have flowed better if Anakin would have had his psychotic break after finding out Padme died before being put into the vader suit to reinforce that Anakin is really gone now, and Vader is a whole new cold, mechanical entity. (He is more machine than man now, you know) Now I can only look at him and see him as a whiny guy spouting stuff that James Earl Jones' friends will mock him for, for years to come.

 

Plus, whats with making Anakin unredemable now? I think there is a special place in Jedi Hell for those who commit mass murder, especially against children. Lucas could have washed his hands of it by having the clone troopers do the dirty work, and than having Anakin being torn up about it - since he's supposed to be tortured and tormented with where his loyalities lie - and should or shouldn't he go to the dark side? Nope, he just jumps in and slaughters everyone with relish.

 

And having everyone killed is a cop out, as far as tying up lose ends. "Hey, whats up with the trade federation? Oh yeah, they all got wasted. Hey, what about the partisans? Oh yeah.. killed.. gosh, sure was a Night of the Long Lightsabers, huh?" I mean, Anakin is the Emperor's own Sturm Abteilung.

 

I dunno - to be fair, the CGI was better for the most part - excluding scenes where the clone troopers had their helmets off - and was more "flawed" to give it a more natural feel. He also didn't use the actions of the actors to show off huge CGI set pieces as much either. The effects in the original trilogy were breathtaking and innovative - but they didn't get in the way of telling the story. In the new trilogy, they painfully do.

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The cinematography, voice work, etc, is yards better in the original.

 

Compare V to III, V was written by a playwright. The flow, and pacing, are way better.

 

Examples? Why can't Lucas frame more than 1 face at a time when 2 people are having a conversation? Nevermind that it's a full head shot centered entirely in the video frame. This isn't a Ignmar Bergman arthouse film folks, where such things are 'hip' and 'edgy'.

 

The first half of III had more cut scenes than the ending of ROTK! Every minute it was cut-cut-cut. Hey, you know, moviegoers can watch a scene for a while, and realize they are happening simultaneously, as large parts of LOTR shows.

 

Yoda was the best actor. Sad Yes. Mace Windu was close sometimes, so very close. Anakin was finally breaking out, in some scenes his rage was palpable, then he went back to being stiff as a board. None of them approached the level of the palpable emotion of the "I am your father" or Darth-Luke-emperor duel.

 

Oh, and Palpatine rocked too. Great actor, the menace in his voice was great. Even Kenobi started to loosen up, McGregor was good in the last half of the film.

 

Even your lowliest Jedi is supposed to be somewhat of a ubermensch. So why do nearly all of them die like punks? No heroic fight scenes, just shot in the back? I thought being force sensitive, they would know people's intentions. It should have been scenes of them fighting insurmontable numbers of clone troopers before cutting away, implying their fate. The Youngling on the bridge killed more clone troopers than most of the other Jedi who died. It was sad, his death was the only one that edged into PATHOS. Most other Jedi apparently were force-blind, and turned around with a suprised look on their face before being shot down. Deer-In-Headlights.

 

Yoda killed 2 clone troopers, the conehead jedi killed 2 before dying. The Youngling, IIRC, diced at least 3 troopers before dying.

 

Then, there were the sappy explanations for what happens in 4-5-6. Yoda saying matter of factly.. "Oh, by the way, some jedi spirits are returning from the Force, including Qui Gong, I'll teach you how to commune with them.." He also implied this was a recent development.

 

Uhm, why did this NEED an explanation? According to the rest of the SW universe fluff, and 4-5-6, Jedi are attuned to the Force, and powerful Jedi may appear as 'ghosts' after death. So why was this explanation EVEN needed? It wasn't a recent 'development' anyways. Books, comics, taking place in the eras predating movies 1-6 used this aspect quite a bit. Jedi 'crossing' over to talk to or commune with others is old old old. It was never something that had to be explained in my mind.

 

Darth's rebirth scene caused some in the audience to guffaw, when he tore himself loose from the gurney. Looked like Frankenstein, and about as well acted. People were laughing, it was that silly.

 

The last 20 minutes were very solid.

 

I thought Clone Wars on Cartoon Network was better written, better paced, and had better butt-kicking jedi.

 

Lucas, please please please put down the pen! You're a great idea man, but you can't write.

Hire good people to put your vision into reality, you can't do it all yourself. If you do pursue the Star Wars TV series, please please please have Genndy and his writing team do it.

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http://www.cartoonnetwork.com/promos/200503_starwars/

 

Here you can watch episodes 21-25 online.

 

Still trying to find 1-20 . . .

 

http://www.tvtome.com/StarWarsCloneWars/

to learn more about it.

 

Season 1 is on DVD already, http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...&s=dvd&n=507846

Arghhh....

 

Finally got the time to watch this and get the message:

 

We're sorry, episodes are only available to viewers in the United States.

We apologize for the inconvenience.

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Big Spoilers - nothing that hasn't been in other posts, but just the same...

 

Okay. Does anyone remember A New Hope? Vader didn't push the button to blow up Alderon, but he was content to give the order. I can't be sure here, but I'd guess there were more than a handful of children there, as well as women, the elderly, and the disabled. And how likely would it be that the Force was still with many of those kids, but that they'd get no training with the last two Jedi in hiding?

 

At least the young Jedi were armed.

 

I didn't care for epside 3 at all, but my only complaint about him killing children was how hokey it looked. There was no way to do it tastefully and do it justice. Filling that scene with splatter would have been completely inappropriate. Showing the bodies later and showing Kenobi's reaction could have been enough.

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They did show the bodies later, and Kenobi's reaction.

 

But, unlike Clone Troopers and Droids who got shown hacked to bits, all the Youngling bodies were whole... :)

 

Also, did anyone else notice during the Clone Trooper & Wookie versus Droid battle, only the Troopers were getting killed? Even when they stood up out of their trenches and barricades, only the clone troopers got hit. Guess they didn't want to show a wookie dying, but it's okay with clone troopers since they wear a helmet...

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A lot of that is MPAA ratings concern I am sure.

 

If they showed those kids hacked to pieces I bet they'd be arguing to keep a PG-13 rating instead of an R. Same with the Storm troopers. Gore = worse rating. You can blow/hack droids to pieces because they are machines and there is no blood and they are not even remotely human appearing.

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Big Spoilers - nothing that hasn't been in other posts, but just the same...

 

Okay. Does anyone remember A New Hope? Vader didn't push the button to blow up Alderon, but he was content to give the order. I can't be sure here, but I'd guess there were more than a handful of children there, as well as women, the elderly, and the disabled. And how likely would it be that the Force was still with many of those kids, but that they'd get no training with the last two Jedi in hiding?

 

At least the young Jedi were armed.

 

I didn't care for epside 3 at all, but my only complaint about him killing children was how hokey it looked. There was no way to do it tastefully and do it justice. Filling that scene with splatter would have been completely inappropriate. Showing the bodies later and showing Kenobi's reaction could have been enough.

I'm going to have to double check, but I believe Tarkin actually issued the order.

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My only point was that Vader played a willing party - as leader - in murdering an entire planet of even more helpless people than the jedis in training.

 

My thing about them showing Kenobi's reaction was that it should have just been the reaction and only the reaction. I don't care that Annie did it (Alderon > Armed Younglings), but there's no good way to show it in a Star Wars movie.

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Heh, for Alderan, by then he had grown used to the darkness. In this he was still in the murderous, hormone filled rage. The reaction itself wouldn't have been enough, this was the pivotal park of Kenobi finding out about Anakin, needed to be reasonably graphic.

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Heh, for Alderan, by then he had grown used to the darkness. In this he was still in the murderous, hormone filled rage. The reaction itself wouldn't have been enough, this was the pivotal park of Kenobi finding out about Anakin, needed to be reasonably graphic.

That would have been the beauty of not showing it. If Obi Wan had reacted to something we couldn't see, then accused Annie face to face at the end of "killing those kids," then there'd be no question that he did it. Our imaginations could have given us something more appropriate while the censors wouldn't have had room to complain.

 

Think of the end of Se7en, with Brad Pitt. We know what was in the box, even if we didn't see it.

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When I was six, I remember hearing that they might ultimately make another four Star Wars movies (I think Empire was in theatres...) So, I figure I've been waiting 24 years for this. Heh. Even without the build up I don't think it would have been ok with me how this played out. In a year I'm sure I'll still have fonder memorys of Stargate (just to name an old Sci Fi movie...) I just got home from seeing it...

 

Acting = Attrocious Not to say the actors were all bad, but the lines they had to deliver were odd and forced to say the least. In particular the scenes with Anakin "turning" to the Dark Side... "Sure, I'll give Evil a go!" would have been more convincing. Windu's sudden "He must die!" was so completely out of character that it was painful to watch. As was Lord Vadar's freak out after hearing that his girl died. Shouldn't he be beyond caring? He tried to kill her himself after all.

 

A lot of it I just didn't get. I thought the droid armies were in hiding but apparently all throughout the galaxy battles were raging with Jedi at the forefront. Didn't Leia have memories of her mother? Why the mind wipe for C-3PO? Why split the twins? Does living in exile require living in a swamp?

 

I'm not saying these questions couldn't have been addressed, just that they weren't.

 

Ultimately the movie was a downer. Instead of writing a movie where near catastrophe was avoided, the characters of Obi and Yoda get away, try to fix things, and fail. It seems that if things worked out as well as possible it would have been better, even if that result was worse (if that makes sense...)

 

Anyway, blech...

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"And Leia had memories of the Organa lady. She didn't know she was a Skywalker at that time."

 

Well apparently, but that wasn't implied in the original movies... And that's my problem with the new trilogy (I dare say they're hardly in the category with the original...), not only do they create characters with virtually no power to them but they cheapen the power that the originals had! It's a half-way touching scene where Luke wonders about the mother he never knew, but apparently that whole scene was a miscommunication. I had the same problem with episode one. In the originals Obi Wan is conflicted because he trained Darth Vadar and feels responsible for turning him to the Dark Side. No where do we actually see Obi Wan screw up at all... He did everything exceptionally well and the only reason that he trained Anakin to begin with was after Quigon asks him to do so as he lays dying. Hardly a request you can refuse! And that was after many scenes of him saying what a horrible idea he thought it was and that the wishes of the Jedi Council should be respected.

 

I went into this one with everyone saying that it's at least better than the first two episodes. I came out of it wishing it was as good as Episode 1. And that's not saying much. <_<

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Does living in exile require living in a swamp?

The ecology of the planet had nothing to do with it. Dagobah was a remote planet which happened to have a powerful Dark Side Site. This concentration of DS energy hid Yoda from the Emporer and his Jedi hunters.

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