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What if I never intend to play a 2000 point game?

 

Can I play a 2000 point game with 18 archers?

 

18 x 44 = 792 points, hmmm...geee, just shy of 2000 points, maybe I can give them all some wargear.

 

My point is if I bought 18 archers, and 2 leaders models with the expectation that it was all I needed to play a good sized game I shouldn't now have to go out and buy more models because the force composition I chose is not longer valid.

 

You say I can still use the models, and that I should just play bigger games, and I say I don't want to invest any more money in an Elven force than 20 models I pointed out and bought using the original printing of the main rule book.

 

Not only that, but perhaps I chose the Elven force strictly based on their ability to bring a fun to play archery heavy style to the board. Perhaps I no longer wish to play Elves at all because I'm forced to use their grunts; something I never intended to do.

 

Oh, and regarding your Games Workshop comments, one companies EVILS does not make this decision by Reaper any easier to swallow. I very much support Reaper making the changes early and clarifying the errata and points cost changes as quickly as possible (the earlier the better in my opinion), but I don't think they really though this particular decision out well enough. With a single swoop it changes the dynamics of the game significantly, and going through the army builds I've made when planning out my perspective purchases for each of the multiple factions I intend to buy I've thrown out at least half of my builds. Meaning over half of the potential armies I put together are now illegal, making this new ruling pretty significant in my mind. I had previously really enjoyed creating builds and planning out purchases that included troops of 4-8 grunts and spearmen topped off with 2-4 archers, now only one of my troops can carry that dynamic, until my faction book gets released, at which point I'll have to buy it, and the new models supported in it.

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On GW's prices, they are actually on par with Reapers here in Australia. GW's characters are far more expensive, but last I saw the newest releases of Grunts over here in Australia were $22-$27AU, in Canada the same Grunts would have cost me $15-18CAN, which I find funny since the Canadian and Australia dollars are nearly identical. I have not bought a GW product in nearly 7 years, but I do know if I want grunts I can get them far cheaper than what Reaper offers (even if they are plastic). Don't get me wrong, GW is a rip-off, but outside of North America I believe Reaper minis carry a pretty heft price as well (understandable due to shipping, but still).

 

Just to give you some perspective on how high Reaper is here in Australia, I've seen the Elf Warlord Starter Box for $80+ AU here, which works out to about $60 US (including tax) vs. the $40US it would cost me if I bought it at home.

 

I'll continue to buy Reaper products as long as they sculpt the minis I like, but right now, price isn't the reason I buy them, I could find far cheaper alternatives if I wanted to compromise in quality.

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Alrighty folks, I can see both sides to the argument here, and I can also see that no one's going to be happy about this for a while.

 

As a mod, I'm asking yall nicely to chill out about this. Please. If we can have some trust and faith in Reaper, that'd be lovely. Seriously. They've NEVER done us wrong without making amends.

 

I don't want to lock this down. But the GW comparisons, and the grousing about who has this amount of models that are now "useless" is starting to give me a headache.

 

Reaper has ALWAYS been good to us. Let's show them the same courtesy.

 

Once more; please.

 

Thanks in advance.

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You have already stated your case several times, so it's fairly likely that your complaints have been heard. The decision is ultimately Reaper's to make though..just as you can choose to ignore the new errata in your own games if you wish to. Make all the house-rules you want. Whether Reaper chooses to recognise your victories or losses is up to them. I'm just a humble forum member. I can't speak on their behalf.

 

Speaking on my own behalf, I think the new rules are a good idea in spite of the fact that my own faction rosters will have to be slightly rethought. I have accepted this, and I will make the best of it.

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I'm not out to bash Reaper, I support their game, and buy nearly exclusively their minis. I just think they have made the incorrect decision in this matter, and it will affect how their game is played, and percieved; and I believe it will do so in a negative way. I still think Warlord is a great game mechanically, and I will still promote it and play it, but I think it will be harder to showcase now with the new limits on army builds.

 

I have always intended to buy each of the faction books, so i don't expect this ruling to seriously limit my abilities to play the game, I just feel for the people who have gotten hurt by this ruling.

 

Anyway, that's the last I'm going to say of it. I've certainly said more than my fair share.

 

I appreciate the concerns people have voiced on both sides, and I thank you guys for letting those of us who are against this change have our say in a civil manner.

 

Also please note, I am extremely happy with all other parts of the erratta that Reaper has provided, and I think the game is much better for the clarifications that have been made, and prompteness in which these clarifications have been provided to us in PDF format. As I said before I have every intention of buying a second printing rule book when time and money permits, but having this erratta made available to me and ready for me to use right now is awesome.

 

Thanks

Aaron

 

PS: As I've expressed elsewhere, with the exception og the archers=adepts change I think everything else in the 2nd printing goes towards making a positive change to the rules set and making Warlord as a whole a better game. I'm very impressed with alot of the changes as they have resulted, from what I can tell, from alot of the feedback and discussions that have occured here on the forum. Always great to see a company listening (that being said, I never expect to get my way all the time, and I know i'll live with the archer = adept thing eventually).

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I must second most of SE comments . <_<

Reaper products are expensive and hard to get here in Oz , and my FLGS has problems with the Australian importers , so he doesn't carry much product . In the end it turns out cheaper for me to wait for the right exchange rate and order onlline . That does not help trying to get WL up and running here when people see other readily available products to buy . ::(:

I love the game but ....... this does seem very sudden all these changes and another thing , what happened to the "Flying Errata" :blink:

In the PDF file nothing is mentioned about the land base movement rate . What"s happening here???!!! :blink: Are we going back to the "Road Runner" examples of eagles racing up the road? :grr:

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Printings take several months to complete. The book has been at the printer or on a ship far longer than the flyer errata (among other items) have been in existence.

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Meaning over half of the potential armies I put together are now illegal, making this new ruling pretty significant in my mind.

Indeed, of the three armies that I've collected and build so far, every single one has become illegal through the Archers=Adepts rule.

 

And none of them were particularly archer-heavy. Like SE, I enjoyed distributing some archers all over the troops, so that I'd have more than one ranged combat activation.

 

Consider me a rather unamused customer.

 

And honestly, I'm unsure on how exactly introducing more archery units for all the factions through the forcebooks is supposed to fix this.

 

And Kelcore - I don't want Reaper to "make amends". I want them to put out good rulesets. And while I admit that I may not see all the intricacies of this rules change, having played WL for only two months now, I honestly cannot see how exactly this ruling is to make the game better in any way.

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And Kelcore - I don't want Reaper to "make amends". I want them to put out good rulesets. And while I admit that I may not see all the intricacies of this rules change, having played WL for only two months now, I honestly cannot see how exactly this ruling is to make the game better in any way.

And the rulesset seemed to be fine and dandy up to the point where you couldn't field archers in every troop. You know what? There's still plenty of grunt-types to feild a variety of troop types in a single unit. And it's still a damn fine set of rules. It's just that you can only field Archers in one of them now (which will likely change, eventually, for a few of the factions). One set of archers in a skirmish game.

 

Huh...who'd of thunk that would makes sense?

 

Seriously, if it bugs you that much, start playing 2000 point games. That way you can have your precious 2 Troops worth of Archery-goodness. Don't have enough models to play 2000 points? Well, you have 2 choices that I can see. 1) Catch Up. Get yourself some other models from your favorite faction (Deathseekers, anyone? They're freakin' awesome!) and maybe start throwing some melee into your archery-based skirmish game (yeah, all this archery heavy crap kinda bugs me, can you tell?). You'll like it, I promise. If that dosen't convince you, try this out- I myself have upwards of 20-some Templar Knights painted. Am I EVER going to use them all at once? Nope. Do I like having that many around "just in case"? Damn surely do. Or 2) quit whing, ignore the errata, play your cheesed out, all-archery, all-the-time armies, and move along.

 

Just please, for the love of all that's green and holy, stop whining about it here. It's getting old, dosen't make my job any easier, stunts your growth, and makes baby Jesus cry. Well, ok, maybe not that last part. But you get the idea.

 

So, once more, with feeling. Stop it guys. Please?

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And the rulesset seemed to be fine and dandy up to the point where you couldn't field archers in every troop.

 

Well - yeah, it did.

As others have already pointed out, the other changes do make Warlord a better game. I fail to see how this specific change does so.

 

It's just that you can only field Archers in one of them now...

 

Which does, IME at least, severly limit the tactical usefulness of ranged combat, in limiting *all* ranged combat to *one* activation per turn. Unless your faction has Solos capable of ranged combat, which only a few factions actually have.

 

Seriously, if it bugs you that much, start playing 2000 point games.

 

That sounds really condecending. I am suddently to play at a much higher points scale (2000pts instead of 750pts) just to keep plaing the game I like?

 

The default points value, unless that's changed in the second printing, is 1000pts. Now you're telling me it is somehow wrong to expect to be able to use the full breadth of tactical possibilities the game has to offer in 1000pts games?

 

and maybe start throwing some melee into your archery-based skirmish game (yeah, all this archery heavy crap kinda bugs me, can you tell?).

 

How, exactly, do you come to the conclusion that I don't play melee troops?

How, exactly, is having 4-6 archers spread over two troops "archery-heavy"?

How, exactly, does the word "skirmish" exclude lots of archers?

 

I'm sorry that I seemed to have ticked you off, I assure you that this wasn't my intention. You seem to be making an awful lot of assumptions about my play style, though, none of them favorable, and I would very much like you to stop that.

 

Just please, for the love of all that's green and holy, stop whining about it here.  It's getting old, dosen't make my job any easier, stunts your growth, and makes baby Jesus cry.  Well, ok, maybe not that last part.  But you get the idea.

 

It "stunts my growth"? What is this, an educational program?

And we're not supposed to mention and discuss rule changes that we disagree with / are unhappy with on these very boards, in the very rules section?

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