ecs05norway Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 The key to the problem lies in the errata's rather over-vague assertion of the Golden Rule Of LOS, in response to the question regarding Defensive Shot vs Sure Shot. The errata in question has been, unless I am much mistaken, superceded by the second printing of the rules and the revisions PDF available from reapergames.com. One may note that the errata entry is no longer on the Forum errata post. It is still in the ReaperGames.com errata post, however: C) Defensive Shot does not require LoS, only range. This list should be revised to match the changes made with the second printing of the rulebook. At that point logicjoe's complaint will be resolved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akela Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 Matt, since you're in here already, can you straighten me out? I'm assuming your earlier quote in this thread was simply incorrect, and you meant to include Scry Shot along with Sure Shot? That's very possible. I said we'd take a look at it and we will. But not today due to other things that are needing to be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Landt Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 Matt, since you're in here already, can you straighten me out? I'm assuming your earlier quote in this thread was simply incorrect, and you meant to include Scry Shot along with Sure Shot? That's very possible. I said we'd take a look at it and we will. But not today due to other things that are needing to be done. Seeing as how I've never been scye shot or sure shot, and I've never played with a model with defensive shot, you go right ahead and take your time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bribba Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 I don't see what the problem is here, really. 1. It's been brought up before. Setting aside the fact that 99% of the time if someone can shoot you, they can see you. Therefore, if they can see YOU, you can see THEM. But in a world of orcs, lizardmen, and the dead walking the Earth, is returning fire that big of a stretch of the imagination? 2. I am tired of hearing about the Flyer Errata. No one got penalized by that rule as much as the Guardian Angel. He doesn't have bloodlust or anything else to help his movement. Firebird and I play all of the time and I have no problem ripping the wings off of his Bone Horror . 3. And last, but certainly not least, Warlord is a new game! The designers can play test only so much before they release it. Of course there are going to be problems. Instead of a handful of people playing it and working out the kinks, now all of us are playtesting it. At least Reaper has the wisdom to understand this and incorporate our input back into it. On top of all this, Reaper has THE BEST customer service in the entire industry. Obvioulsy, these guys (and gals) are working hard and all they get from some is a hard time. Shame on Logicjoe and anyone else who immediately jumps on a game before it has been given a chance to establish itself. There I have said my peace. My goal is not to insult or offend anyone, but to illustrate my frustration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logicjoe Posted June 3, 2005 Author Share Posted June 3, 2005 My bigets problem is the idea that a Skeeter can defensively shoot Naomi if she is under whater, under a bridge, on the other side of a forest covered mountain. That seems a bit over powered. Also the reading of Ranked states that Defensive shot does not allow the Overlors crosbowmen to be shot but rather the units in front of them only. Is this still correct or did that change due to the change in Defensive shot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logicjoe Posted June 3, 2005 Author Share Posted June 3, 2005 I3. And last, but certainly not least, Warlord is a new game! The designers can play test only so much before they release it. Of course there are going to be problems. Instead of a handful of people playing it and working out the kinks, now all of us are playtesting it. At least Reaper has the wisdom to understand this and incorporate our input back into it. On top of all this, Reaper has THE BEST customer service in the entire industry. Obvioulsy, these guys (and gals) are working hard and all they get from some is a hard time. Shame on Logicjoe and anyone else who immediately jumps on a game before it has been given a chance to establish itself. There I have said my peace. My goal is not to insult or offend anyone, but to illustrate my frustration. I know that most of you do not know this but Warlord is actually about 3 year right if I remember correctly. So the game is honestly not that new. I think the story is that the game was held up in customs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecs05norway Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 Yeah. That's why Ranked costs points. It lets you hide behind a row of bruisers and shoot out past them. Note that it says you can Defensive Shot against any model in "the same general area" as the attacker. So let's say you have a sitch like this: 12345 abcde vwxyz Where 1-5 are Overlord Crossbowmen, a-e are Bondslaves, and v-z are Skeeters. Nothing says it has to be the guys in the front rank you return fire at. 1 shoots at v. v returns fire at a, kills a. 2 shoots at w, w returns fire at 1. and so on. And so on. No, you won't get all the crossbowmen, but you'll get more than he expects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firebird Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 Bribba in fairness you Angel has been on the receving end of my army abot as much as he is on the giving end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwyksilver Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 Hmmmm first printing of Core Rulebook according to first page. June 2004. Unless my math is off. 2005-2004 = 1 Distribution of the book was delayed by customs. Books were printed in Thailand (again read the first page). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 The release of the core rulesbook was held up, yes. The BL reps got a black-and-white wirebound "stuck on the truck" copy to use at their planned "debut" gaming sessions which took place on the first weekend in October of last year. It was about a week afterward that the colour hardbound books were mailed to the BL reps, and even longer before those books reached the store shelves locally. Fair to say it's still a new game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoarfrost Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 This whole thing is confusing the hell out of me... Soooo... Does this ruling mean that I can use Defensive Shot on archers who were doing an indirect volley on me, even though I do not have LOS to those archers? And does this ruling allow me to use Defensive Shot against a Scrye Shot? I can *kinda* see how Defensive Shot would work against Sure Shot, but I don't quite see how it would confer to the model the magical "homing missile" ability of Scrye Shot that it otherwise doesn't have. One more thing - the 180° front arc limit is still in place, isn't it? Or does the new ruling also mean that I can use Defensive Shot against an attacker who was shooting at me from my back arc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Landt Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 The thing that confuses me is: Is this situation coming up frequently in your games? Are scrye shot models commonly targeting models with defensive shot? Maybe it's just me, but I would think this situation would be very rare. And if you are playing with a scrye shot model, wouldn't the easiest solution just be to shoot at a model without defensive shot? I don't ask this to be a [email protected]$$. I'm honestly wondering if this situation is coming up with any sort of regularity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildbill Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 I don't think I've ever played a game that included a model with Scrye Shot. I did play with a model that had Sure Shot once. I like that a little better. Helps you thump those really big guys. **Die evil Treeman!!** Wild Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 I've always figured that defensive shot was an sa that only a really good archer would have. The kind of archer that have an almost spooky nack for the art. ie they've honed there skills so much all they have to do is know where you are and they can take a shot. So even if they don't have line of sight once they see a projectile fly they know where the shooter is and returns fire. A kind of counter battery shot if you will. At least that's the way I see it in my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storminator Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 I don't think I've ever played a game that included a model with Scrye Shot. I did play with a model that had Sure Shot once. I like that a little better. Helps you thump those really big guys. **Die evil Treeman!!** Wild Bill If I can get into a really big game, I'm going to add Lorielle from the merc section to my Overlord force. Just to see how it works. PS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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