Issues fighting reven as Necropolis

[wrightjd]

So there's a strategy I'm having trouble countering as Necropolis. As we all know all Reven leaders get warcry as an innate ability at CP 4 ( 2 for their CP + 2 for friendly units ). So with the bull orc fighters that only cost 23 points the Reven can charge in and wipe almost an entire troop out of my units, and then he follows in with his leader and brings a majority of his units back up ( especially if he uses his cleric's warcry ). With the introduction of the new Reven warlord the Reven can bring all the grunts they do this with all the time ( with a Lesser Magical Empowerment that is ). He also takes 2 or 3 dispel magics so I can't get him with Area of Effect spells. He also throws Divine favor on her so my first hit doesn't count anyhow and a greater magic armor so that I have to get natural tens to hit with archers. How do you guys recommend I combat this? Nothing is readily presenting itself to me. Any ideas?

 

EDIT: forgot to mention he uses enrage to drop his DV to 2 and his MAV is at 7, then he cannot miss any of my units and doesn't care if I hit him or not.

[Qwyksilver]

Not to shoot myself in the foot, but go after his units with your own Tough troops. Warcry works on ALL models in the 2" radius, not just Reven models. He'll be less likely to Warcry if it also means letting your guys get back up too. One thing I don't think ever came up, but do the rolls for innate leader's Warcry for your opponent's models only happen at +2 (innate CP - or whatever the CP is), since it's not against a friendly model? Or is it +4 (+2 innate CP, +2 friendly) for everyone?

 

Enrage is a great feature. The best folks to use it on are the Bull Orc Hunters. They get two attacks at +6 MAV if you fully enrage them. You know the model will die, but it's going to cream one of your bigger models something fierce. Just remember, they can only enrage ONE model per troop activation. Any model is capable of being enraged. So if you cannot target the leader models with archery or spells, you can certainly aim for the mostly likely candidates for enraging, which for me are the spearmen and woodcutters. Spearmen for the 2 attacks and good movement, woodcutters for the good movement, and I like to try and keep my warriors alive longer since they have a better base DV and MAV. Remember also, Dispell only works if the opposing caster is in the area of effect AND has SA: Defensive Magic. Just drop your AOE spell just outside the opposing caster. You'll still get a goodly chunk of his models.

 

The faction book will give you some healing type options, so your multi DT guys will have a way to get better.

[Sivrel]

I would suggest taking out the leader first because leadership models among reven are not very high quality, and for dispel try to hit only the leadership model with a spell like ice shards to prevent your opponent from being able to use defensive magic.

[spiritual_exorcist]

I too worry about this problem, and I have since it was made known that the Reven would have a Spell Casting Warlord. I was worried that the CP would be too high, combined with the +2 friendly bonus that warcry would be a near automatic success. I had not thought about the possibility of upgrading her with a Magical Empowerment to make Warcy an automatic sucess though.

 

I can't offer you much advice to be honest, I'll have to muttle over it myself. I'm certain the Reaper Peeps have taken this into account though. I suppose the biggest solution is to make sure that your primary target is the Warlord and that you concentrate on her and mob her.

 

She isn't nearly as powerful as Varaug (even if you give her Divine grace, which I have to saw I believe never should have been introduced into the game, what a cheap and cheesy item/power). Her lower DV, lower toughness, and lack of Warmaster, means she will be much easier pickings when you attack her. I guess we'll have to see, I think you will either need mob tactics, or some sort of hunter/killer model (like a Guardian Angel or something) to take her out.

 

I too have concerns though, but in the end, every unit has a weakness and vulnerability.

 

But for the extra few points she is worth taking over Narg though, that is for sure, whether you indend to use her clerical abilities or not.

[Qwyksilver]

Yeah, being able to use Warcry as a cleric spell, rather than losing your attack action using it as an innate in a leader is rather nice

 

The thing is though, in lower point games, she's pricey, and you're not going to load her up with too much equipment AND spells, because you'd be losing a large portion of troops to do it. Both she, and the new Lesser Orc Capt are definitely going to be considered before Narg for me.

[spiritual_exorcist]

My understanding, although perhaps I'm incorrect, is that she would be able to use her innate CP with her natural Reven Warcry ability.

 

I don't have the book in front of me, but I believe the Warcry description says that Reven Leader models without a CP use the default of 2+2; suggesting that Reven Leader models with a CP would use their regular CP value when employing their Warcry ability. I could be wrong (and I hope I am, perhaps the wording changed int he second printing).

 

Meaning the new Warlord could Warcry with CP 6+2 for free.

[Reaperbryan]

We have foreseen this problem, and in the fullness of time, the solution shall make itself abundantly clear.

[Kelcore]

Also, it's entirely possible that Kiakara won't have the same abilities that Varaug, and those under his command do. I was one of many that got to look at the Necropolis Faction Book, and If memory serves (sometimes it works ok *grin*), the sub-list that Moandain's the Warlord of in the Necropolis dosen't get the same faction SA's that a Force under the command of Judas does.

 

This is merely extrapolation on my part, but it is entirely possible that the New Reven Warlord won't have Warcry as an innate SA.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[wrightjd]

Thanks to everyone who responded. I wondered if I was supposed to be having such a time with that one faction ability. I was almost resigned to throwing some dwarves out there.

[shakhak]

Also, it's entirely possible that Kiakara won't have the same abilities that Varaug, and those under his command do. I was one of many that got to look at the Necropolis Faction Book, and If memory serves (sometimes it works ok *grin*), the sub-list that Moandain's the Warlord of in the Necropolis dosen't get the same faction SA's that a Force under the command of Judas does.

Wow that opens up pandora's box of new questions.

[Reaperbryan]

Well, Kelcore is correct, as those who won printer-proofs of the Necropolis book could tell you. Moandain's group gets different SA's than Judas'.

[Qwyksilver]

Hurm, but the lists in the Necropolis book weren't exclusive lists, they were alternate lists correct? Meaning you could use Moandin in a regular Necropolis army with standard all Necro faction abilities or in the special army list which got it's own cluster of special faction abilities. Could have sworn that was the case, but I didn't spend a lot of time reading it.

[Reaperbryan]

Hurm, but the lists in the Necropolis book weren't exclusive lists, they were alternate lists correct?  Meaning you could use Moandin in a regular Necropolis army with standard all Necro faction abilities or in the special army list which got it's own cluster of special faction abilities.  Could have sworn that was the case, but I didn't spend a lot of time reading it.

Yes and No. The Faction ABilities found in the corebook did not apply the same. Moandain;s Sub List (Called the Crypt Legion) got some, but not all of the Corebook SA's, and some new ones. And the "Overall Necro" list got some, but not all of the Corebook SA's, and some new ones also.

 

 

 

Here's the way it works:

There's all possible models in the Reven book. We'll call this the "Grand Reven". The Grand Reven can be led by either Kiakara, or Varaug. The Grand Reven has one list of SA's that it uses. The Grand Reven list is all models that can be fielded and still retian the Reven Army SA's.

 

Then there's what we call Sub-lists.

In this case, Varaug is the leader of a special sublist (The Legion Tomukh, for those who speak Reven), that as long as you ONLY include models in that list you get a different set of SA's. Much like the Core Army, you must field only the models that are on the Sub-list to get access to the sub list's SA's. You don't have to field all of the models on the list, but you lose the SA's if you field moidels not on the list (Like if you field models not on the Crusader list, you lose mercy, it works like that).

 

Varaug, in the particular case we are talking about, MUST be used as the Warlord of the list that gets the Innate:Warcry SA, because the Grand Reven list does not get this SA, but the Legion Tomukh does.

[Spike]

Warcrying, though a nice thing to be able to do, isn't necessarily the best way to tie up a leader (or cleric for that matter).

 

Sacrificing Varaug's combat action to motivate one or two orcs is a bad choice when the unit is still surrounded.

 

Also keep in mind when Ombur (or Kiakara) spends her spellcasting budget on Warcry, that's one less Bandage or Bless in the mix.

 

Add to the fact that the spell has a 2' AOE and might not necessarily work, and the SA is far from a gamebreaker.

 

Now...that said, let's discuss Sokar, shall we? Grrrrr!

[Kelcore]

Now...that said, let's discuss Sokar, shall we? Grrrrr!

Ummmm...I hear tell he has beer?