Wrecker

[FreeFall]

OK, so I haven't used any figs with Wrecker until Friday night. WOW, talk about fun!!!! So here's a question:

 

Side A's Rhino fire's and hits Side B's Butcher, the shot then travels on and hit's Side A's Tiger behind the Butcher. Would the Tiger get a Defensive Shot at the Butcher? According to the book, if the Tiger belonged to a third player it would.

[Chrome]

Yes, if the models are from different player's armies.

 

It usually only takes 1 game against a Rhino, etc for your opponents to learn not to line their guys up nicely for you!

[Spartan6]

According to Pat they don't have to be from different armies.

[Erion]

Well, yeah, you could take defensive fire against one of your own models, if you really wanted to.

 

Between Wrecker and strafing runs, straight lines became a thing of the past very quickly around here.

[Sergeant_Crunch]

To make sure I've got the concept down. I have a Rhino (We'll call him Earshplittenloudenboomer) and it fires at two conviently lined up models (we'll call them Sucker 1 and Sucker 2). Sucker1 and Sucker2 both belong to the same task force. The way I read it, both Sucker1 and Sucker2 would get defensive fire on Earshplittenloudenboomer regardless of which task force or platoon they belong too, provided they have not already performed defensive fire on another model from the same platoon as Earshplittenloudenboomer in that turn. Right?

[ForceCommander]

Thats the way I read it as well, though Sucker 2 would still need to be able to draw LOS or have an IA capable of defensive fire.

 

Earshplittenloudenboomer is WAY cooler than my named CAV; Wussy McRunHide. (I still need to figure out how to paint letters that small!)

 

Jamie

[FreeFall]

No you guys are missing the point. The Rhino was from my opponent's army, Sucker 1 is mine, Sucker 2 is also from my opponent's army.

 

In the book, it states that in a multi-player game, if the Rhino was side a's, Sucker 1 is Side B's, and Sucker 2 is Side c's, then sucker 2 would get a defensve fire shot against SUCKER 1, not the Rhino.

 

Now in a two player game, this can be abused. Back to my situation. The Tiger fires on the butcher, then the Rhino fires on the Butcher, damges it, and hits the Tiger. The Tiger gets a defensive strike on the Butcher. That basically is giving the Tiger an extra shot at the Butcher. Sure it's a gamble, but I can see sacrificing a model for that last shot that may put the Butcher down and win the game.

[Erion]

Thats the way I read it as well, though Sucker 2 would still need to be able to draw LOS or have an IA capable of defensive fire.

 

Earshplittenloudenboomer is WAY cooler than my named CAV; Wussy McRunHide. (I still need to figure out how to paint letters that small!)

 

Jamie

I can make you a really tiny decal...

[ForceCommander]

Well, if it was Epic, I'd just make a gigantic back banner to put it on, but that doesn't really seem to fit the CAV aesthetic!

 

When are we playing again Jeff?

 

Jamie

[Chrome]

both Sucker1 and Sucker2 would get defensive fire on Earshplittenloudenboomer regardless of which task force or platoon they belong too... right?

Wrong. Last sentance, first paragraph of the Wrecker SA description says:

Defensive Fire is only provoked [by] from the first model attacked, even if latter models have Line of Sight to the attacker, unless in rare cases during a multiple side free for all.

So if you get 4 guys all lined up and hit all of them with one shot, the first guy would still be the only one who gets to shoot at you. Most of the time this wouldn't be an issue anyways since there wouldn't be Line of Sight. The first target should block LoS for everyone behind him. The only time this wouldn't happen is if a latter target were on a +1 elevation level from the first target, or if one or more of the targets were gunships/infantry, which do not block LoS.

 

FreeFall's example is the mulitplayer free for all, where the Rhino hit 2 models, each from different teams, so the 2nd target got defensive fire on the 1st target, since that's where the shot seemed to eminate from.

[ForceCommander]

Speaking of which, was there ever any further discussion of Wrecker and elevation changes?

 

In other words, if the models behind the initial target are at a different elevation, can they still be hit with the Wrecker pass through? Also, should aircraft be subject to Wrecker pass through damage?

 

Jamie

[Chrome]

I think that the "only first target gets defensive fire" thing was added specifically to deal with the elevation thing. It wasn't in the original rules and was only added after I asked about it here.

 

Gunships should definately be effected. They may not block LoS but they're still in the field of fire. The only time I think it should be an issue is if you have infantry and gunships in the same line. Since they're at different elevation levels, I could see it as a problem, but I'm willing to just ignore the realities and enjoy a fun game.

[FreeFall]

FreeFall's example is the mulitplayer free for all, where the Rhino hit 2 models, each from different teams, so the 2nd target got defensive fire on the 1st target, since that's where the shot seemed to eminate from.

 

You hit it Chrome. What threw me for a loop was that the second model hit was on a different team fromt he first model hit, and therefore might provoke a defensivce fire action, even though it was on the same team as the Rhino. The concept is that the tiger owuld think the shot actually came from the Butcher, so would fire back. THAT is where it gets confusing.

 

This discussion does bring up anohter question. Would a Tank behind a CAV be effected? Would a Gunship behind a Tank be effected? Would a CAV behind a Tank, but one elevation up be effected?

[Sergeant_Crunch]

both Sucker1 and Sucker2 would get defensive fire on Earshplittenloudenboomer regardless of which task force or platoon they belong too... right?

Wrong. Last sentance, first paragraph of the Wrecker SA description says:

Defensive Fire is only provoked [by] from the first model attacked, even if latter models have Line of Sight to the attacker, unless in rare cases during a multiple side free for all.

So if you get 4 guys all lined up and hit all of them with one shot, the first guy would still be the only one who gets to shoot at you. Most of the time this wouldn't be an issue anyways since there wouldn't be Line of Sight. The first target should block LoS for everyone behind him. The only time this wouldn't happen is if a latter target were on a +1 elevation level from the first target, or if one or more of the targets were gunships/infantry, which do not block LoS.

 

FreeFall's example is the mulitplayer free for all, where the Rhino hit 2 models, each from different teams, so the 2nd target got defensive fire on the 1st target, since that's where the shot seemed to eminate from.

And now I know, and knowing is half the battle

 

Thanks for the clarification

[Chrome]

What threw me for a loop was that the second model hit was on a different team fromt he first model hit, and therefore might provoke a defensivce fire action, even though it was on the same team as the Rhino.

Wait, the Rhino and Tiger were on the same team? I don't think it would get triggered then. 2 different players on the same side is not a free for all, which is the caveat for the rule.

 

This discussion does bring up anohter question.  Would a Tank behind a CAV be effected?

I don't see what's so hard to understand about "Any model that has its base in the LoS corridor is an elligible target".

 

Would a Gunship behind a Tank be effected? Would a CAV behind a Tank, but one elevation up be effected?

Now this one I would say no to. Perhaps the attacking player should have to designate an elevation level that the shots travel along and all models that cross that elevation are effected. Then again, as I said before I'm willing to use my suspension of disbelief and just play the game.

 

I think some mention could be made about different elevations too, b/c while fairly common sense, I could see some players making a big deal about something like: Attacker is on level 4 hill shooting down at a defender 12" away. Defender takes damage, attacker wants to use Wrecker against another target that's 12" behind the 1st target. While all 3 form a line, the attacker's shot would obviously go into the ground somewhere right behind the original target, since the shot was made at a declining angle.

 

Like such:

 

Rhino

XXXX

XXXXX

XXXXXX

XXXXXXX______Dictator1______________________Dictator 2

 

 

Obviously woudln't work!