ElementsWarden Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 I agree with you that Warlord's presentation is to the right. I am just refering to what people have 'said' Reapers perspective is. ( Again this was NOT official Reaper people.) I just really dislike these type of sour statements made because their play style is different that others, and then say it is not in the spirit of the game. (This was used a lot within the Adept Archer thread I believe.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiritual_exorcist Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Just a quick note as well, 6 Elven archers can fire more shots with far more devastating effect that 11 Bull-Orc archers (and I've seen Brushmaster field said Elven archers, so don't take his comments to heart). Archery is for sure an effective part of the game, but it isn't the only part of the game, and if you go archer heavy you sacrifice something and give yourself a weakness to do so. Even if I was facing 11 Elven archers I wouldn't complain to be honst, Elves are supposed to be shooty, and in this fantasy incarnation Bul Orcs have the ability to be shooty as well; I have no problems with that at all, I might get my butt handed to me a few times but I'd sort something out to get an edge on that type of build. I believe the original intent of this thread was simply asking for ways of defeating an archer heavy force. Of the top of my head, speed, and magic would be the things I would utilise (Griffons, Giant Eagles, Grave Horrors, Angels, etc or magic in the form or Teleports, Part, Fireballs, Firestorms, etc). I mean the reality of the situation is that at 30-40 points/archer I should be willing to lose at least 1 20-30 point model in exchange for killing such archers. SOmetimes the best thing to do would be to set up a high DV screen and just march across the field (take a musician to move faster) expecting to take a fair number of casualties on the way. Spirit of the game is extremely subjective towards an individual or group of players. I agree with Brushmasters perspective of the 'spirit of the game', because I think we generally share the same spirit with regard to Warlord, we're there to have fun, and we really arn't that competative at all (I mean we both enjoy beating the crap out of eachothers armies, don't get me wrong, and when it comes down to it who doesn't like to win). But certainly this perspective isn't the only perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixminis Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 I agree with you that Warlord's presentation is to the right. I am just refering to what people have 'said' Reapers perspective is. ( Again this was NOT official Reaper people.) Interesting... Not being part of the game-designers... and really only being someone who gets to drop in on the office from time to time... I can put this unofficial comment in: I got to overhear *many* energetic game design sessions that went into the wee hours (over the years during Warlord development). The discussions revolved around balance, challenge, good mechanics. Essentially balance in the spectrum you are discussing. My understanding of Warlord & RAGE in general is that it's a game system that is simple to learn... but capable of handling complex strategies... Now, are Reaper peeps nice people to know, yes. Are some of 'em capable of laying some smack-down on the table? Rgds, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokingwreckage Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 If the Reaper peeps did any playtesting at all, a big archer block should be something that, while powerful, can be countered as part of a good all-round force. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiritual_exorcist Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 If the Reaper peeps did any playtesting at all, a big archer block should be something that, while powerful, can be countered as part of a good all-round force. I believe this is currently the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakhak Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 If the Reaper peeps did any playtesting at all, a big archer block should be something that, while powerful, can be countered as part of a good all-round force. I believe this is currently the case. I agree, easily done and a fair fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElementsWarden Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Now it may be but in support of smokingwreckage, this is due to new erratta (archers being Adepts) that playtesting missed. Take a look at Razigs Revenve Army if you want to see broken still! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixminis Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 What I tell my underlings at work is this: If you find a problem, bring the problem and it's solution to the table. Name yer solutions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElementsWarden Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 One step is to treat pistol equiped troops as a pistol adept. This will limit the amount of pistol troops. The second is only 1 soul cannon per 500 points or the such... it would need to be playtested. I also believe that Archers should not be made adeps but instead for every mini that can perforn a ranged attack, you must have one that cannot, thus allowing more mixed troops through out the force. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranzadule Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Once upon a time, there was exactly one faction that stood a chance against my "For Those About to Rock" Razig army: EW's Elves. Now Ew's Elves will get stomped. An all-archer FreeCompany may be able to do it, but they will not consistently outrange my undead pirates like the elves so I'd still play them for money. As for the comment about elves v Orcs in archery, you must factor in the cost and the survivability of the Orcs and you will see that now, the Reven enjoy missile superiority over all but the Pirates and Free Companies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint of Sinners Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 The only grunts in Razig's army that have RA are the Bone marines and they are already adepts. All range grunt models should now be adepts. Now the Soul cannon is a bit trickier... but hey he cn only field 20 at the most anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixminis Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 One step is to treat pistol equiped troops as a pistol adept. This will limit the amount of pistol troops. The second is only 1 soul cannon per 500 points or the such... it would need to be playtested. I also believe that Archers should not be made adeps but instead for every mini that can perforn a ranged attack, you must have one that cannot, thus allowing more mixed troops through out the force. Coolio... I see what you're talking about. Now I've gotta hunt my CW down to find the Razig's rulez... At the same time.. when we (the folks I regularly game with) find something that provides a superiority we can't play (with good conscience) we work around it with a scenario rule or two that balance it to our flavor... Thx, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brushmaster Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Spirit of the game is extremely subjective towards an individual or group of players. OK , ok , I may have been misquoted but I don't want people to get too hot under the collar . Look I'm up for a challenge any day , but one of the main reasons I gave up playing 40k and most competitions was because of this same mentallity . I try to demo the game using all aspects and possiblities and I find that people who do these kind of actions kill the game! Maybe I've said too much and will get more people hot under the collar but lets just try to keep it friendly ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
efkelley Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 I fought the hideous Spar and his thousand-man archer free company this weekend. I lost, but it was reasonably close. Emmel Etch fought the same force and the game was even closer. A few changes to our opposing forces would have probably tipped the scales slightly against the archer company. And, of course, we weren't using any cavalry. Just one cavalry troop might've tipped the scale on its side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint of Sinners Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 Spirit of the game is extremely subjective towards an individual or group of players. OK , ok , I may have been misquoted but I don't want people to get too hot under the collar . Look I'm up for a challenge any day , but one of the main reasons I gave up playing 40k and most competitions was because of this same mentallity . I try to demo the game using all aspects and possiblities and I find that people who do these kind of actions kill the game! Maybe I've said too much and will get more people hot under the collar but lets just try to keep it friendly ! One of the things that chased me away from MWDA was all these people whining about "unbeatable" tactics. Honestly, I've yet to see anything that can't be countered. But yeah it does erk me when munchkins start using loop holes. And as for the "spirit of the game" I always thought it was to have fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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