Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Froggy the Great

Generic-card Dungeon Crawl - August 13, 2005

Recommended Posts

On August 13 around Noon at Millennium Games in Rochester NY, I'll be doing a sort of deathmatch scenario with cheesed-out generic cards. Those of you within driving distance, this is your invitation. The more the merrier!

 

Okay, now that the plug is out of the way, I've got a 4' x 4' dungeon terrain peice in the works, and it looks like I'll get it finished in time for the game. My players requested the event, and now I'm calling on your two cents to help finalize the scenario.

 

Players take the generic datacards in either first or second printing of the Warlord book, and make a single model up to 300 points. Using the Warlord Deathmatch rules from Casket Works 17and the initiative system from Savage Worlds by Great White Games, we'll smack each other down in a few hours of fragtastic RAGE action.

 

-The Catapult is not allowed. Period.

-All cards, SAs, and spells must be from the main rulebook only.

-No factional SAs will be in effect.

-Players must bring a representative, painted, Reaper mini on an appropriate Warlord base, to represent their character. Sticky-tac on a cardboard square is acceptable for the base.

 

I was playing with some of the datacards last night. Holy Freekin' SA synergy, Ashkrypt!

 

The points I want help clarifying:

1. How do I handle spells when a caster is killed and then respawned?

2. Should I limit it to Generic upgrades, or allow regular upgrades from pp75-76 of the main book?

3. Does allowing SA: Non-Corporeal make the game non-fun? Think of the guy with a horse, non-corp, wings, and +3 MOV.

4. Does allowing SA: Scrye Shot make the game non-fun? If it's a flying animal doing the shooting, it makes sense, but a straight archer with SS doesn't make sense in a dungeon.

5. How about SA: Burrow?

 

I want to post the event to the Reapermini front page no later than the evening of Wednesday August 3rd. I need feedback, especially from experienced Black Lightning members and people who are going to be coming to the event.

 

Thanks much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems that flying in a dungeon is questionable too. Non-Corporeal and burrowing are probably going to make a lot of things that could be cool pretty lame. I don't know how many players there will be but having a scrye shot could be less than thrilling if no one can reach a person. Of course, if it's a loot game then killing people for other people to loot really doesn't help. Still, scrye shot is far from tactical... Everyone should spawn with their full compliment of stuff (including spells). I don't see why you'd do it any other way. Otherwise someone that chose a 300pt model will be a lot better off than someone who takes a 100pt model with 200pts in spells and upgrades.

 

Just my take.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My comments would be about whether or not Scrye Shot would make the game un-fun. There are only two models on the list that have Scrye Shot: Ranger Hero and Catapult and Crew. Only one of those two is legal for play in the scenario: the Ranger Hero. You've already said that the Catapult and Crew is out.

 

The RH costs 270 points without upgrades and has a DV of 8. So you only have 30 points to play with to upgrade the model, where someone else might have several hundred. (For example, start with a Large Creature and upgrade from there.) You might get off a couple of shots at your opponents, they everyone will work together to take you out. And with a relitively low DV and no way to make it better than a 10, you wouldn't last too long against beefed up opponents.

 

It's possible that someone with Ranger Hero could rule this senario, but I thenk it is far more likely that he or she would damage a couple of opponents and then be taken out by the rest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's what I did with the Ranger hero:

Start: 270

-3CP (-9) 261

Horse (+15) 276

+2DV (+12) 288

Noncorporeal (+3) 291

+1 RAV (+9) 300

 

So here we've got something that moves 16" per action, can hit anything within 40" of its starting point, and neither movement nor shooting is affected by the terrain which seriously slows down everyone else. In my mind, that's Not Fun to play against, and I'm not even sure it'd be fun to field.

 

I imagine life expectancy in this game will be two turns at most, unless we have way fewer players than I expect. So my 2/4 mage takes two fireballs, fires them both off for, say a total of three frags, gets fragged, and respawns with his two fireballs again. Does that sound fair? I personally don't know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In most first-person-shooters snipers get short shrift from everyone else. I think non-corporeal will suck harder than a turbo charged agricultural-grade vacuum cleaner. Possibly the same for Burrowing. This is due to the terrain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. Respawned models should have everything they started with. Though the following are some more advanced options.

 

A. Each time the caster dies he checks for each spent spell, first death gets them back on say a 5+, next death on a 6+ etc (feel free to adjust the numbers). This will need recording of the number of deaths each person suffers.

 

B. When a caster dies he loses the spells he has used, next time he dies he gets them back. So you lose the cast spells for one death.

 

2. I would allow any upgrades as they can all be taken by everyone (excepting the ones

you have concerns about). The more SAs available the more fun to be had trying to build the perfect combo. It is a level playing field for everone. So yes both generic and regular upgrades.

 

3. The SA specific concerns I can't really comment on not knowing them well enough, but flying and burrowing sound bad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Trying to find the perfect combo is a bit dull when there's onlt ONE perfect combo or one ability you MUST take or be stomped. And I maintain that being able to step thru walls is, in a dungeon, and without cost adjustment, so obscenely overpowered as to be mandatory- depending on how long it takes to walk AROUND the walls, that is. I'm thinking of tunnel-fights, not just a somewhat heavilly terrained table.

 

Hiya Stu!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When we ran our Dungeon scenario at Reapercon, we specifically chose models without Scryshot, Incorporeal, Fly, and Burrow, to minimize their impact. Several discussions were held as to whether these were "game breakers" for this kind of scenario.

 

A possible option, we threw around some "scenario rules" that we decided it would be simpler simply to deny the models than to enforce, but you may want to consider:

 

Flyers may not fly in corridors, only in rooms larger than 20x20(4x4 squares)

Burrowers likewise.

Scrye shot is measured as the path the shot must take from shooter to target, not straight line through walls. (Similar to movement - a scrye shot must turn corners, etc.)

Incorporeal can enter a wall, but due to the magical properties (Silver lined support timbers, etc.) an Incorporeal creature may not pass through a wall to the other side - they may ghost into the wall to gain 100% cover, however.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's an idea for spells: unused spells respawn automatically, and used spells respawn only on a D10 roll greater than spellcost/10.

So ice shards would respawn on a 2+, fireball on a 6+, and Firestorm on an 8+.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1. How do I handle spells when a caster is killed and then respawned?

2. Should I limit it to Generic upgrades, or allow regular upgrades from pp75-76 of the main book?

3. Does allowing SA: Non-Corporeal make the game non-fun? Think of the guy with a horse, non-corp, wings, and +3 MOV.

4. Does allowing SA: Scrye Shot make the game non-fun? If it's a flying animal doing the shooting, it makes sense, but a straight archer with SS doesn't make sense in a dungeon.

5. How about SA: Burrow?

 

1.) Respawn the spells, that's part of the cost of the character.

2.) If you are going to have weapons and itesm lying about, limit it to the generic upgrades.

3.) I would not allow burrow, flyer, or mounted, but non-corp might be interesting. Just say they can move through say a door, but not a wall.

4.) Yeah, I'd disallow Scrye Shot.

5.) Ditto. Disallow Burrow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the homing missile idea Bryan suggested for Scrye Shot, where it has to bend through corridors, etc up to the maximum range.

If it has to pass through a closed doorway, that should prevent the shot from going through. This means people might be careful and close doors behind them, etc.

 

 

Burrow and Non-Corporeal through closed doorways, but not the walls seem to be a decent way to allow those abilities, without making them nerf the whole game by letting them in unrestricted. There will still be an advantage to these abilities, but not a game ruining one.

 

 

Flying just does not make a whole lot of sense. especially if the land speed MOV of 3 is used. Mov on flying models is their air speed, not land. If they are going to be restricted to flying in only really large rooms, a lot of players may just opt out of this ability altogether.

 

 

Spells - Make them lootable items that a player has to go back and recover. If a caster dies with spells unused, they become scroll items another player can pick up and use if the appropriate caster type, or horde to prevent the spell caster from creaming them in revenge. If you die, spells you cast are automatically recovered, but you have to regain the scrolls of your unused spells. This might make mage duels more interesting.

 

 

Any equipment a player carries, should be considered lootable, and even if there is a restriction for elite or leader on some equipment, if it is looted, any model should be able to employ it.

 

 

If possible, basing issues should be interesting too. Will all corridors be at least 2 inches wide? It would be amusing to watch a Large based model like Yagun chasing after a small model like Dingo Appledimple, only to have to pull up short because Dingo wormed into a small corridor. This might be a way to allow an incorporeal model to have some advantage because corridor width doesn't effect them. Bigger models would take movement penalties to force their way through the confined space. Maybe have them move at 1/2 Mov.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When you sent me the email, I was really hoping this was for this weekend as next weekend is too close to GenCon and my Parent's 40th Anniversary.

 

I'll give oyu some feedback after my meetings today. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here are some ideas for flight:

 

Models can hover in the corriders and other defined "low ceiling" places. This gives the terrain movement abilities but they are in range of melee attacks from people on the ground. In other words you can't get out of the range of people stabbing at you without hitting your head on the ceiling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's the event description as posted on the front page events list:

http://www.reapermini.com/?nav=Games⊂=Demo%20Stores#326

When: 12:00 pm

 

What: Generic-card Dungeon Deathmatch

Make a single 300-point model using the generic datacards. Bring a painted Reaper mini to represent your datacard, and enjoy several hours of Fragtastic Warlord Deathmatch action in a 4' x 4' cavern network.

 

Generic cards and generic upgrades only, please.

 

Not allowed:

* Catapult datacard

* Non-Corporeal SA

* Scrye Shot SA

* Burrow SA

 

Where:

Millennium Games and Hobbies

3047 W. Henrietta Road

Rochester, NY 14623 MapQuest

 

I can make changes to this of course, but I'd prefer not to past this Wednesday.

Any more thoughts?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...