Are we looking at it wrong?

[Spartan6]

Is the solution for the first turn strike slaughter just allowing less points for strikes?

[Saint of Sinners]

I don't think cutting points will help. Even dropping it down to 15%, a sneaky player could still drop 8 or more artillery rounds on his opponent's deplotment zone, in a 2000 point game.

 

My question is realistically, how many artillery cannons, orbital satilletes, or air to ground fighter planes could a relatively small task force of 3000 pts have?

[Chrome]

I'd originally thought about limiting it to only one strike per turn, but that's too much. Plus it pretty much neuters the Terran's faction ability.

 

So, how about only one strike per platoon's activation?

[Saint of Sinners]

I'd originally thought about limiting it to only one strike per turn, but that's too much. Plus it pretty much neuters the Terran's faction ability.

 

So, how about only one strike per platoon's activation?

or alternately one type of strike per turn.

[Spartan6]

One type per turn could work.. In reality the management of airspace is a big thing for the FiST'ers. You can't have artillery shells passing through the same space as aircraft- It's counter-productive.

 

 

On a different note: Did all the races forget how counter-battery fire works?

[Crazy8]

I'd originally thought about limiting it to only one strike per turn, but that's too much. Plus it pretty much neuters the Terran's faction ability.

 

So, how about only one strike per platoon's activation?

Sounds like a good idea.

 

As far as striking the deployment zone... could you use some fluff to cut back on that? i.e due to a lack of battlefield intelligence no strikes are allowed in the first turn to simulate the time it would take to update the intelligence that would be used for any kind of artillery or CAS??

[abngi]

As far as striking the deployment zone... could you use some fluff to cut back on that?

The problem, if it exists, should be balanced from a game mechanics perspective first - the fluff can follow, as any ruling can be fluffified in an artificial environment. Adjusting the mechanics to match the fluff is a dangerous road to travel, as balance becomes more subjective, and is easier do disrupt when people have different views on the "intent".

[Crazy8]

Very true, that's why I was trying to think of something that would fit in the game mechanics as well as the fluff... the best I could come up with on the spur of the moment was lack of intelligence. Now... if someone were to field some units with Scout SA and managed to get LOS on the enemy deployment zone... then that's a different story. I do agree with you, the mechanics need to make sense first and foremost.

[ForceCommander]

How about making the FIST attribute also determine the number of strikes a platoon can call each turn? In other words, a FIST/3 unit could call 3 level 1 strikes, one level 1 and one level 2, or one level 3 strike in a turn. I'd still like to see a LOS or successfull scan requirement as well.

 

I think artillery and assets should still be dangerous, and it seems like the threat of only one strike a turn makes them more of a nuisance.

 

Jamie

[Erion]

That doesn't work, because the number of strikes that can be called is already limited to one per model by way of it being a combat action to do so.

 

In all honestly, I think the best way to limit the power/abuse of strikes is to

 

1) Remove any and all automatic damage. Orbital Pinpoint strikes especially make this harsh, but it would also apply to the Cruise Missiles, etc. Make the damage roll an automatic crit roll with any hit doing one damage or something, but there has to be some chance the strike will fail to be totally effective.

 

2) Slow down the cruise missiles. They can make it from one end of 4 x 6 table to the other in two turns. Against non mechanized infantry, a WMD Cruise missile is a death knell, with their maximum 8" movement. For 50 points, If it catches two basic rifle teams in it's area of effect it automatically pays for itself in terms of points. Given that it covers 50 sq. in. of table space with it's area of effect, and can remain well outside of the first range band of its intended targets (24") until it's ready to strike, it's almost too good a buy. Maybe make the damage roll d10+5 plus the shredder ability and require it to make a damage roll against all models. Even then, there's only a 10% chance any given infantry model is going to survive the blast, barring cover. The way it's currently written, it could be read that even infantry inside transports are auotmatically killed/stunned. That's crazy.

 

3) Reduce AOE's for the strikes.

 

Overall, making the Strikes less effective makes them less attractive. Will people always try to max them out? Yes, of course. But the way it's written right now the 500 points of orbital pinpoint strikes people can take in a 2000 point game is a guaranteed 30 damage tracks by rolling even moderately well. Introducing the randomness and reducing the AOE's will go a long way toward making these strikes less of a sure thing.

[FreeFall]

You know I was really scared of strikes when we started this. Last weekend I played an opponent who plays Terran and went strike heavy. I knew this was coming and countered with a large air contignent. In the first turn I managed to take out all his fire teams with IF barrages, basically nullifying over 550 points worth fo strikes. All he had left were his strafing runs, because no one else could call in anything over a Strike/1.

 

Strafing runs are nasty, and maybe under priced. Cruise missiles though, are pretty balanced I think. I let him go ahead and launch 3 of them so we could see how they worked. I destroyed everyone of them before they could hit anything. They may be fast, but they are far easier to destroy is you have a shredder around.

 

I need to test this a bit more, but I think strikes are almost OK. Maybe just some tweaking needed, but nothing major.

[ForceCommander]

I think I'm getting myself confused here....

 

If an Infantry platoon of 4 stands all have FIST/1, they could call down 4 strikes in a single activation, right? Each unit would use their combat action to call the strike?

 

Jamie

[Chrome]

If an Infantry platoon of 4 stands all have FIST/1, they could call down 4 strikes in a single activation, right? Each unit would use their combat action to call the strike?

Right. And what you were saying is that the Platoon would be limited to calling only one strike b/c they only have FIST/1, correct?

 

My question is what happens to the platoon that has one model w/FIST/1, another with FIST/2, a third with FIST/3 and one with no FIST SA at all? Would that platoon get 1, 2, 3 or no strikes per turn?

[ForceCommander]

Right, I was proposing per Platoon, not per model.

 

 

I have been mulling mixed Platoons, I'm thinking it would be based on the highest FIST rating, but also include the Strike's Allocation rating.

 

In your example the Platoon could call (3) Strafing runs OR (1) Artillery Strike and (1) Battery Strike OR (1) Orbital Strike

 

And I still would like to see a LOS or successfull scan (similar to scanning to break stealth) before being able to call strikes.

 

Jamie

[Spartan6]

And I still would like to see a LOS or successfull scan (similar to scanning to break stealth) before being able to call strikes.

I'd still like to see both be required.

 

In a fairly well balanced force you're only going to have so many models that can get LOS and make a succesful scan on turn 1. It's really the best way I've found to almost eliminate the deployment zone slaughter without imasculating the Terran SA or changing a whole bunch of stuff.