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Yes , if "Distract" reduces your attacks to zero , then no defensive strtikes .

 

 

# of Defensive strikes cannot be reduced below 1. Essentially they mitigate Warmaster

 

THe Dogs might not provoke a defensive strike, but they would certainly be eligible to be attacked by defensive strikes, seeing as how they woul need to be in base-to-base to use their Distract.

 

You don't need to assign your defensive strike(s) to the model that attacked you, you can assign it to any model you are in base-to-base with that you are eligible to attack (no defensive striking enemy models in your rear, but almost everyone else is fair game).

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Yes , if "Distract" reduces your attacks to zero , then no defensive strtikes .

 

 

# of Defensive strikes cannot be reduced below 1. Essentially they mitigate Warmaster

 

THe Dogs might not provoke a defensive strike, but they would certainly be eligible to be attacked by defensive strikes, seeing as how they woul need to be in base-to-base to use their Distract.

 

You don't need to assign your defensive strike(s) to the model that attacked you, you can assign it to any model you are in base-to-base with that you are eligible to attack (no defensive striking enemy models in your rear, but almost everyone else is fair game).

 

Yes, what I meant was no attacks. And if you do not attack him, no defensive strikes back. So 3 puppys with Garr (around 200 points) can shut down almost any model in the game by surrounding him and distracting him.

 

Now if no one attacks, he cannot defensive strike. he cannot attack as his attacks are reduced to 0. And at -4 to his dis, who wants to try and break from combat??

 

Then when you have dealt with the rest of his army you run up and hack him down with all the support on top of it, and he still only has 1 defensive strike.

 

Its a good plan for dealing with the 300+ point solotaire or Warlord.

 

SD

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although everything you said is true, remember a couple of things. First, those dogs are not cheap themselves. You might end up spending almost as many points to distract as who you are trying to distract. And they have a fairly low DV so you have to hope to win initiative.

 

But if all your ducks do fall in a row, then yes, it can be pretty powerful.

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Yes, like I mentioned Gar leading 3 war dogs would cost 187 points. A bit pricey as a distraction tool.

 

I haven't actually ever tried it because in my games so far I have yet to run into any big bad guys. So I haven't run into a situation where this would be useful yet.

 

But I think I will eventually and I might give it a try. We will see how it goes.

 

SD

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The problem with that, is that you are presuming that the Warlord or Melee Hero is going to run around without a single model coming along for support. This might be true for a Solo, but even then, usually there is someone by to provide covering fire or melee support. Go ahead and swarm the guy and spend all your activations removing his ability to attack. I'd gladly tie up an entire troop with just one model. Since Distract doesn't effect DV, go ahead and try and take your shots if you want. Sure, I'd only get one defensive strike, but you only need one (2 if it's Garr) against a DV 8, for most Melee Heroes and Warlords, that's a 70% chance of success without upgrades. Each kill means one more attack back.

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I'm not presuming that, just ignoring it for now. ::P:

 

Ok lets look at supporting fire. Unless your wood elves, do you really want to shoot into combat when your big solo is at a -4 to his dis??

 

And assuming supporting troops.

 

Lets say you have a 300 point character and 200 points of supporting troops.

 

Then I should have 187 points of hounds and another 313 points of other troops.

 

I have the hounds tie up the 300 point warlord, while my 313 points of troops wipes out your 200 points of support. Now with say 150 points left I can have them attack the now hapless warlord with more support than he can possibly DV.

 

But don't worry, I know the tactic is not great. If it was, everyone would already be using it. If their DV was higher than 8 I'd like it a heck of a lot more.

 

I was just trying to throw out a useful tactic for a group of hounds with distract.

 

Yes, there are lots of ways to counter it and it would be a big surprise :bday: if it actually worked. But for that guy who want to plop down a Bone horror or something directly behind your guys, what a surprise he would be in for. :devil:

 

SD

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Ok lets look at supporting fire. Unless your wood elves, do you really want to shoot into combat when your big solo is at a -4 to his dis?

 

 

Why not? Solos and Leaders are never out of cohesion and therefore don't retreat unless they fail breaking from combat, so even if I shoot and fail my discipline check (most start with DV 9) I could simply use an Invoke action to remove my shaken token. At least I might remove some of the dogs, and since I can't attack anyway unless I remove some of them, I don't mind spending a turn using an Invoke action.

 

Lets say you have a 300 point character and 200 points of supporting troops.

 

Rare circumstance, I don't know about anyone else, but I rarely field a character this hefty, and when I do I'm not going to be dumb enough to let you base him with 3-4 Dogs. You'd be lucky to get a single dog on him, I'd just form up ranks.

 

This is where the dogs become useful, not in that they themselves would be that effective. But they are a tactical tool, if I want to protect my characters I have to keep my models bunched, leaving me vulnerable to spells and volleys.

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Lets say you have a 300 point character and 200 points of supporting troops.

 

Rare circumstance, I don't know about anyone else, but I rarely field a character this hefty, and when I do I'm not going to be dumb enough to let you base him with 3-4 Dogs. You'd be lucky to get a single dog on him, I'd just form up ranks.

 

This is where the dogs become useful, not in that they themselves would be that effective. But they are a tactical tool, if I want to protect my characters I have to keep my models bunched, leaving me vulnerable to spells and volleys.

 

I think the 300 character and 200 troops is not the game, but a small, local subset of the game. I can envision sending a powerful solo off on one flank, with a sergeant and a small troop as his back up. This might get the 300-200 breakdown on that particular flank. Then Drake counters on that flank with a 300 point troop to head off the sergeant, and a pack of dogs to tie up the solo. What's happening in the rest of the fight won't matter until later.

 

PS

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I'm not presuming that, just ignoring it for now. ::P:

 

Ok lets look at supporting fire. Unless your wood elves, do you really want to shoot into combat when your big solo is at a -4 to his dis??

 

And assuming supporting troops.

 

Lets say you have a 300 point character and 200 points of supporting troops.

 

Then I should have 187 points of hounds and another 313 points of other troops.

getting the hounds across the field ... I think you overlooked that bit :;):

I have the hounds tie up the 300 point warlord, while my 313 points of troops wipes out your 200 points of support. Now with say 150 points left I can have them attack the now hapless warlord with more support than he can possibly DV.

 

But don't worry, I know the tactic is not great. If it was, everyone would already be using it. If their DV was higher than 8 I'd like it a heck of a lot more.

 

I was just trying to throw out a useful tactic for a group of hounds with distract.

 

Yes, there are lots of ways to counter it and it would be a big surprise :bday: if it actually worked. But for that guy who want to plop down a Bone horror or something directly behind your guys, what a surprise he would be in for. :devil:

 

SD

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I think the 300 character and 200 troops is not the game, but a small, local subset of the game. I can envision sending a powerful solo off on one flank, with a sergeant and a small troop as his back up. This might get the 300-200 breakdown on that particular flank. Then Drake counters on that flank with a 300 point troop to head off the sergeant, and a pack of dogs to tie up the solo. What's happening in the rest of the fight won't matter until later.

 

 

But that assumes the Crusaders opponent is oblivious to the notion of the dogs tying his Solo up, and lets that part of the game become independent of the game as a whole. Flanking with such a unit when the dogs are on the board is a flawed approach. Which is why I say that the dogs make a good deterant, they eliminate certain tactical approaches.

 

Plus the Angel is the only 300+ point Solo, and he can just fly over those dogs anyhow.

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Ok, is anyone else confused that the 'The Wolf' default faction ability isn't carried over into the Army of Justice sub-faction.

 

I don't think it would have skewed gameplay to an unbalancing level. I just think it is funny that I can take 2 units of Justicars in a 1000 point default list (assuming I take Gerard of course), but that I can't take 2 units of Justicars in the Justice sub-list; where one would think Justicars would be more prevelant.

 

Just complaining because my intention is to primarily play an Army of Justice, and some of my poor Justicars might have to sit on the sidelines. Not to mention it is a great insentive to field Gerard, who I normally wouldn't put on the board in a smaller game.

 

Oh, and I kinda think it is funny that Broderick, leader of the Justicars has a lower Dis than the Justicars themselves, but that's minor.

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Ok, is anyone else confused that the 'The Wolf' default faction ability isn't carried over into the Army of Justice sub-faction.

 

I don't think it would have skewed gameplay to an unbalancing level. I just think it is funny that I can take 2 units of Justicars in a 1000 point default list (assuming I take Gerard of course), but that I can't take 2 units of Justicars in the Justice sub-list; where one would think Justicars would be more prevelant.

 

Just complaining because my intention is to primarily play an Army of Justice, and some of my poor Justicars might have to sit on the sidelines. Not to mention it is a great insentive to field Gerard, who I normally wouldn't put on the board in a smaller game.

 

Oh, and I kinda think it is funny that Broderick, leader of the Justicars has a lower Dis than the Justicars themselves, but that's minor.

 

Does seem weird on both counts. I mentioned Broderick having a lower Dis a bit back and no one else mentioned it. My opponents always think its weird I have the lowly justicar offering mercy and not Broderick.

 

SD

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Ok, is anyone else confused that the 'The Wolf' default faction ability isn't carried over into the Army of Justice sub-faction.

 

I don't think it would have skewed gameplay to an unbalancing level. I just think it is funny that I can take 2 units of Justicars in a 1000 point default list (assuming I take Gerard of course), but that I can't take 2 units of Justicars in the Justice sub-list; where one would think Justicars would be more prevelant.

 

Just complaining because my intention is to primarily play an Army of Justice, and some of my poor Justicars might have to sit on the sidelines. Not to mention it is a great insentive to field Gerard, who I normally wouldn't put on the board in a smaller game.

 

Oh, and I kinda think it is funny that Broderick, leader of the Justicars has a lower Dis than the Justicars themselves, but that's minor.

 

 

It's the Army of Justice... so you can only have one troop of justicars in a 1000 points list. The reason is actually simple... if you were to get two troops it would be UNjust to your opponent ::D::rolleyes: The Army of Justice wants to keep things honorable and on an even playing field.... :lol:

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