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Had that 4 way 1000 point game yesterday. I gave a overall BR in the main board, but wanted to share some thoughts on Crusader side of things just here.

 

Army list looked like:

Broderick w/ Gr.MA

3 Justicars (musc)

4 hospitilers

 

Sir Malcolm

3 Templar Knights

2 x Temple Ironspine

 

Sir Danel

3x Lion’s Lancers (mus)

 

Hound of Judgement

 

If my math didn't fail me, I believe that is 1000 points exactly.

 

1. Broderick with Gr.Armor was a friggen tank walking around. DV 12 w/deflect. He was hit or shot at least a dozen times before he finally took a natural 10 shot on a defensive strike. Happened right after I lost my last hospitiler. After that he took another '10' from an arrow and eventually was dropped by the top Reptus leader.

 

But he blazed the way through a valley of Elf warriors with archer and magic support that was great.

 

2. Lion Lancers with first strike can knock some people on their butts. They need a musician to get them where they are going. And they need a standard to boost their Dis up 1. I wish I had added that in. But you can't have everything.

 

Now having said that, They cannot stay in a straight up fight. They hit hard and need to run away. They can take missile fire as even elf archers need 9's to hit them. But with only a DV10 in close combat, they will get taken down from a swarm of grunts. Thus they need the +1 dis to try and break combat if they get outnumbered. They need to gang up on models as well. With only 1 attack you need to make them count. Its tempting to spread them out and hit a bunch of smaller models, but that is a mistake.

 

3. The hound of judgement is just a beast, hands down. He does need support as the MAV of 3 is nice but needs a couple support points for those 3 attacks to be useful. I did 12 attacks without hitting a sole in the first couple turns. That was disappointing, but mainly bad dice rolling. The dice turned for him later, and he knocked out a centaur on his own, a unit of 3 dwarfs the Reptus leader, captured 2 keys and really won me the game.

 

For its 156 points, he is a steal. And that DV 12, was so, so sweet as he didn't take a wound until the 3 dwarfs ganged up on him, finally wounded him. He took down 2 in defensive strikes. Then on his turn took down the 3rd.

 

4. Hospitilers soon became the talk of the table as when I would use them verse every new opponent, it was, "What the hell do they do?" Even when that player saw me use them against other opponents.

It doesn't really hit them until they spent a ton of magic and arrows to do 2-3 wounds and think they are doing great. The hospitilers run up, heal everyone up to full and the Justicars just start hacking through their lines again.

 

Hospitilers quickly became the targets of choice for the archers after that. And I even had one hospitiler charge up a hill, and kill an archer when their was no one to heal.

 

I also saw an opponent give up attacks or archery shots to run over a coup my guys to prevent the hospitilers from doing their jobs.

 

I did find hospitilers almost useless against Dwarfs except to get the bear rider back up after I mercied him.

 

5. I'm still finding with Crusaders, good formation tactics of an inverted V shaped line with iron spines and hospitilers behind is an awesome formation that beats the heck out of loose skirmished formations once you get into combat.

 

That is until the enemy caster decides throwing fireballs into combat is the way to go. I'm thinking perhaps a mage of my own with some Defensive magic may be what I need. But I still came through it ok, mainly because we got a wound on the wizard and his cp went way down.

 

Anyway, just a few thoughts I wanted to share.

 

SD

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Why do I suck with Crusaders?

 

I have five armies - Crusaders, Dwarves, Elves, and Necropolis, Reven. The Crusaders are my faction of choice and I really like the way the army plays. (Other than the horrible archers!) The problem is, I suck with Crusaders. My win ratios are 50% with the Reven and Dwarves, and 80% with undead. Over half my battles are with the Crusaders and my win ratio with them is a horrible 28%! <_< I gotta tell you, it's very frustrating. I'm not claiming that the Crusaders are broken, I'm just vening frustration with myself. I try different makeups and put lots of planning into my Crusader fights, but have poor results. But if I throw together a Necropolis army, I can swarm the crap out of whoever I fight. And no, I am not going to switch to the Necropolis. Once I get my Goblin army done, Reven are a possibility..............

 

Castlebuilder

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Castle builder I can read your frustration in your post. I would have a very difficult time playing a force I could only win with 28% of the time.

 

While I play for fun and having a good time. I like to win. Plain and simple. I won't cheat to win, or twist the rules, or anything, but I challenge myself to win. And if I am not winning at least 50% of the time, I'll change my tactics, stratagies whatever until I am.

 

I'm fairly fortunate as I've yet to lose with my Crusaders, but my experiece is also somewhat limited. I'm sure that first crushing defeat is right around the corner.

 

What I find about Crusaders is picking your fights. When and where? Cav makes that nice, but a full cav force lacks the numbers you need to win.

 

High armor and timely healing is what works very well for me. Add in speed and fighting formations and I think you get a very strong force that can take on most opponents.

 

SD

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You also have to take into account the number of games you have played with each.

 

I only play one game with Necro and win, my winning percentage is 100%.

 

I play two with Crusader, win 1, then my percentage is 50%. The difference looks huge percentage wise, but its only a difference of one game.

 

Summary, don't get caught up in percentages.

 

Instead, focus on gaming style and tactics. As has been said many times on these boards, each faction is specifically written to have different strengths and weaknesses. Trying to use the same routine with each faction, of course it aint gonna have the same results for you.

 

Also, this is a game of Rock, paper, scissors (modified by random dice rolls). Not every force is going to be exactly balanced with every force even if the point values say it should be. That is where you just have to learn and experiment. Swap out a few things, try new combinations. Take terrain into account... Take scenario and timeframes into account. I have won plenty of games where I had less models on the field at the end of the game, but that was because we were playing based on time and points, or objectives, not just the kill everything..

 

 

Think outside the box.

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Crusaders and my win ratio with them is a horrible 28%

 

 

Mine's probably not much better, I chalk it up to using only the model I have, and previously having only access to 6 Templar Warriors, and 9 Unforgiven, which ended up meaning I had a predominance of low DV models, and not enough high DV models to screen them.

 

In fact my win-loss ratio is pretty dismal right now, I think I'm 2 for 7 to start the new year. Not because I've been playing poorly, more because I've been experimenting with using various combinations and trying to see what works and what doesn't with all the newer Necropolis, and Reven goodies; now that I've got the Crusader book, 3 blisters of Justicars, 2 more blisters of Templar Warriors, 2 Blisters of Hospitaliers, and a few other goodies, I'm prepared to continue losing in the name of experimentation ::D:

 

Granted, I don't know what has happened the last 3 outings I've made, but my dice rolls have turned on me. Has never happened to me that I consistantly had bad luck over such a long perioud of time, oh well, I'll get out of that funk enentually ::): I'm not one to chalk up many loses strictly to the dice.

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Well Castlebuilder having played against you I have a little bit of insight of what may be working for your other armies but not your Crusaders. Your playing style tends to more of a massed combat style which does not work with the more expensive therefore less numerous Crusaders. I'm not sure if this is something you do often but your spell slingers also tend to be point suckers which eats into your rank and file boys. When your troops hit mine initially you slaughtered them but once I got my move there were a lot more lizards in the fray than tin cans and that is when I brought them all down. Not sure if this helps or not but I thought I'd toss in my 2 cents.

 

 

PS have you started on building Denelspire yet? ::D:

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PS have you started on building Denelspire yet? ::D:

Not yet. I've worked on some plans though. The large round tower is going to require some custom molds. It is also going to be huge. I will need to finish the Norman Keep first so I have available table space.

 

Castlebuilder

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Don't forget that a number of Crusader models have had their points reduced in future builds. This will likely allow you a few more models to bring to the dance.

 

 

The addition of Skirmishers really allow you to edge towards using mobs of units as well, with their fairly low points costs, if that is something you are looking to do.

 

Hospitaliers, if you can keep them protected, look like they will go a long way to keeping units on their feet, so even if you lack numbers, you should be able to counter this with Mercy and Healing.

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Don't forget that a number of Crusader models have had their points reduced in future builds. This will likely allow you a few more models to bring to the dance.

 

 

The addition of Skirmishers really allow you to edge towards using mobs of units as well, with their fairly low points costs, if that is something you are looking to do.

 

Hospitaliers, if you can keep them protected, look like they will go a long way to keeping units on their feet, so even if you lack numbers, you should be able to counter this with Mercy and Healing.

 

Yep , good point Qwyk but it does not work against 20 Skellies . :down:

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Yep , good point Qwyk but it does not work against 20 Skellies . ik_down.gif

 

 

That's what Holy Light and Holy Burst are for.

 

Those spells are a waste of points if you don't play against the Necropolis or Nefsokar, and against the latter you may even have trouble succesfully casting them. Unless you are allowed to build your army knowing what you face, they are hardly worh including.

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Those spells are a waste of points if you don't play against the Necropolis or Nefsokar, and against the latter you may even have trouble succesfully casting them. Unless you are allowed to build your army knowing what you face, they are hardly worh including.

 

You have a point there about Holy Light. But Holy Burst comes in handy no matter what. It's primary function IS as a bandage spell with a radius....

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