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Ivarr

Strikes Playtested MORE

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*Waits patiently for Ivarr's 'unbeatable' Terran force list*

 

Jamie, if/when he posts it, you want to playtest it against something I put together from my Templars or Adonese?

 

this post should say something more like......"I havent read page one of this topic yet, but I will get to it later...after being a bit rude....then I'll call Jamie and set up a game."

 

 

Guys I am really trying to be patient and polite with this topic, but my first post...the one that started this thread... gives my exact force......down to the point....and just a few posts later I posted the opposition from the most recent run against it.....which did not make it out of turn 2.....I apologize that I did not write down the two Templar forces from our first couple of walk throughs of this scenario, but the outcomes were the same....

 

I do not claim it to be an unbeatable force....or anything like that.....but it will without question point out to anyone who playtests it...the balance issues and questions about strikes......and unless everyone who plays it rolls really poorly, it will take enough models out of the game to illustrate my earlier concerns. (ie that there is little point in constructing a 2000 point force for a game where half of it or more will be removed before you get to use it.)

 

unfortunately to me (and the guys who play at my store) it really seems that several people on this forum just like to jump on and blast away at anyone who is actually playtesting the rules..........which BTW is very disheartening, and even more distracting.

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1. No one was rude.

 

2. This is the "exact force" you put in your first post in this thread:

you guys need to playtest the strike rules properly once or twice....try taking ANY 2000 pt force against a terran force like this:

 

650 pts worth of 25 pt strikes of your choice (26 of them)

10 fist capable troops

Whatever you would like to fill it out...perhaps a second unit of fist troops and a couple of tsesuki fighters?... or something with high armor that can mop up the remenants of the opposing force after its decimation at the hands of way to many strikes

 

On a 4'X8' board, requiring a scan makes almost no difference, unless you at minimum declare everything stealthed in the deployment zone, and as stated before, they can still legally declare the strikes on the ground near stealthed units....

 

In any case, even if the 25pt strikes you take are all cruise missiles, this is just a rediculously silly thing to have in a game... period. It will look like a game of missile command on the old atari 2600....not a miniatures game of any kind that I want to play.

 

That doesn't tell me what models you used in the game you played, nor which strikes, nor which infantry teams. It tells me that you took 26 strikes and 10 infantry teams. Nor do you give an exact force list for your opponent. You gave one platoon and an overview of his second. I asked:

Ivarr, would you mind posting the exact force list you used. I'd love figure out ways to shut it down.

 

3. You did not, in fact, claim that it was unbeatable. You did, in fact, claim that nothing you had fielded it against survived beyond the second turn. I'd like to prove that it can be beaten. Preferably by a non-terran force that doesn't use the same trick and rely on getting first turn initiative.

 

4. I'm the last person at whom you should be taking a shot at about "actually playtesting the rules." I think my interest in recreating your test alone should show that, but if you need more evidence, go back and read the literally HUNDREDS of posts I've made on the CAV2 topics since the closed Beta was started. In this topic alone I've offered no fewer than three potential solutions to the problem you pointed out.

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*Official*

 

Chill. Let's not take the personal attacks any further.

 

*/Official*

 

this thread has been brought to Matt's attention, and he will lead the CAV development team toward resolution. Until then, continue to provide to us real game examples of situations where "loopholes" can be exploited so that we may continue to study these and resolve them as well.

 

Thank you all for you participation thus far, and I assure you we are watching.

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Thank you all for you participation thus far, and I assure you we are watching.

:blink:

 

see I told you they were watching me! I tell ya they got tiny mirco cameras implanted in there mini so they can spy on us. ANd you people thought I was just paranoid <_<

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today I played 10 heavy hunter teams in platoon 1

2 tsuiseki as platoon two

and 4 heavy mrotars and one shredders as my partial 3rd platoon.

and 26 straifing runs

 

His force today

Ogre and 3 scorps

 

2 apcs and a mix of infantry including one team w/fist 3 (used to call the 2 nukes that he took as strikes)

 

1998 points

 

and just playtest it yourself....and report some results.......because Im sure it is possible to build a force to beat this one....and it is also possible (though I feel unlikely after several games like this) that our results are a bit extreme.....

 

None of what I said was a cheap shot or any more of an insult than this.....all of the quotes above are from my first two posts in THIS thread.....did you miss these statements.....I was a little offended that anyone was patiently waiting to prove everything I have said wrong...but did not take the time to read what I posted in the first place....and so would anyone else be.

I have said at least 3 or 4 times in several different threads that I know that an all strike force can be beat, but it definately is currently out of balance...and would require a specially built force to beat....which will without question change the game drastically.

 

We have games scheduled for tomorrow and perhaps Sunday....I hope to have more information...and to have lots of fun .....

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Ivarr if you would be nice enough to test a couple of things for us this weekend with your strike heavy force.

 

1. Play a game where the unit calling the strike must first make a successful scan for target on at least one of the targets involved in the strike.

 

2. Play a game where the platoon calling the strikes is limited to calling strikes equal to the highest strike level in the platoon each turn. I.E. a all fist/1 platoon could only call one level one strike in a turn, or a platoon with a fist/3 could call a single level three or three level ones, or combination there of.

 

3. Play a game with no strikes first turn.

 

 

These are all suggestions on how to address this issue, if you could please give each of these a try and see how they work with your strike heavy force.

 

I personally don't believe that anyone was dismissing your findings, or saying you were doing anything wrong. I just don't believe that any of us have tested that heavy a strike force and have not seen results such as yours.

 

Mad Pat

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Yessir...I will give at least a couple of those a try tomorrow....and record more exact turn by turn findings.....some of these seem like very good suggestions for reigning things in.

 

I apologize for being rude earlier (to anyone who was offended) No harm was intended...just venting some frustrations.

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Considering CAV is supposed to be a game centered on (fairly) small unit tactics why not limit strikes to the amount of points you field?

Say, for a 1-1000 point force you get 1 strike. 1001-2500 you get 2. 2501-4000 you get 3, etc. etc. This solves the problem of "wasting" points on strikes and counterstrikes. Both you and your opponent have a set amount of strikes that you know are coming to the table.

This also helps simulate the feeling of "quick and dirty" engagements by limiting strikes to "realistic" levels. (Think about an average CAV2 2000 point force, is it even REMOTELY "realistic" that a force that small would have dozens and dozens of strike aircraft orbiting around waiting for them to call in a strafing run???)

To help keep the Terran faction ability going it could be done so Terran forces are allowed 1 extra strike for every force that is 1001 points or higher. Example: 1-1000 point force EVERYONE gets 1 and ONLY 1 strike. 1001-2500 point force gives you 2 strikes, the Terrans get 3, 2501-4000 points gives you 3 strikes the Terrans get 4 etc, etc, etc.

Just a theory... :mellow:

Just for the record, though this may have been suggested somewhere else that I missed, I think this is on the way to being a very good idea also. perhaps 1 strike per 1000pts period...and terrans get +1 per 1000 after the first (ie in a 2k pt battle most get 2 but terrans get 3....in a 3k most get 3 but terrans get 5) or somthing of that sort.....Just a thought!!

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We'll get it worked out somehow. ::): There has to be a nice balance out there somewhere.

 

 

So Frosch, has this gotten to the level of the infamous DF fire debate yet?

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So Frosch, has this gotten to the level of the infamous DF fire debate yet?

Pfft... not even close!

 

The "Are we looking at this right" thread has about the right number of posts, but nowhere near the level of venomness that the DF discussion had. It got so bad that people actually left the Yahoo Group. :down:

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So Frosch, has this gotten to the level of the infamous DF fire debate yet?

Pfft... not even close!

 

The "Are we looking at this right" thread has about the right number of posts, but nowhere near the level of venomness that the DF discussion had. It got so bad that people actually left the Yahoo Group. :down:

Ouch. That sounds ugly. :unsure:

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2.  Play a game where the platoon calling the strikes is limited to calling strikes equal to the highest strike level in the platoon each turn.  I.E.  a all fist/1 platoon could only call one level one strike in a turn, or a platoon with a fist/3 could call a single level three or three level ones, or combination there of.

 

Yay!

 

I am INORDINATELY pleased that my suggestion has gotten noticed by the rules folks.

 

Now get back to rescaling tanks and gunships! :devil:

 

Jamie

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We'll get it worked out somehow. ::): There has to be a nice balance out there somewhere.

 

 

So Frosch, has this gotten to the level of the infamous DF fire debate yet?

This is a pleasant walk in the daisies with mortar fire raining around with a pleasant staccatto springtime thud in comparison.

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We'll get it worked out somehow. ::): There has to be a nice balance out there somewhere.

 

 

So Frosch, has this gotten to the level of the infamous DF fire debate yet?

Ahhh... The good old days.

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