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Ivarr

Tonight's games

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Ivarr if you would be nice enough to test a couple of things for us this weekend with your strike heavy force.

 

1. Play a game where the unit calling the strike must first make a successful scan for target on at least one of the targets involved in the strike.

 

2. Play a game where the platoon calling the strikes is limited to calling strikes equal to the highest strike level in the platoon each turn. I.E. a all fist/1 platoon could only call one level one strike in a turn, or a platoon with a fist/3 could call a single level three or three level ones, or combination there of.

 

3. Play a game with no strikes first turn.

 

we playtested the first and second options...Inquisitior will be following up with detailed activation by activation results, but the short of it is this:

 

Option 1 might make a bit more difference on a bigger board, but on a 4x6 board, it made nearly no difference as nearly everything is w/in 60' ...and unless I am misunderstanding what you wanted ....only one unit of infantry must make a successful scan for target before multiple strikes can be launched vs a certain target...so even if it took a couple of scans to get a success, stuff still died quickly....this game lasted one activation into turn 3 with inquisitior playing terrans and garrand playing a rach force ....forces will be detailed by one of the guys shortly

 

 

Option 2 made a much larger difference, though with a slight reoganization of the terran force, the terrans were still able to launch 9 strikes per turn...again forces to follow shortly. this game was substantially more competitive, but still only lasted about half way through the 3rd round/turn (5 activations of 6 I think) but inquisitior only used 16 of 26 strikes before switching to indirect attacks with mortar teams and a bit of DF action with the fighters....the terran losses were substantially higher in this game

 

We made a decision to stop after the second game due to time restraints and garrands spirits being dashed a bit.....We discussed things a good bit, and think that option 2 is definately a step in the correct direction...if you added this rule and doubled the cost of some of the strikes...it would probably near some sort of balance.....

 

As I said above....much more information is on the way....unfortunately, I have a Calculus exam in the morning. The guys will be typing in results due to an emergency trip that I must take Friday morning....I will be able to respond to questions at some point this weekend but my wifes aunt is losing a battle with cancer, and the family is trying to rally in Alabama this weekend in support, so I will likely be a bit busy....my apologies, but anyone who would like to say a prayer for Aunt Flo, it would be appreciated.

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I have a question.....if you buy a strike. do you get it for the whole game or do you just get the one...i.e. did you get 9 jsjtrikes each turn, or did you have a total of nine strikes in your arsenal. once lauched they are gone?

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I have a question.....if you buy a strike. do you get it for the whole game or do you just get the one...i.e. did you get 9 jsjtrikes each turn, or did you have a total of nine strikes in your arsenal. once lauched they are gone?

Each strike is single use. So you buy ten strikes you get to call in ten strikes. Any model in yer task force with FiST SA can use them.

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I first posted this on the thread, prior to Ivarr's post. I'll repost it here for the sake of...something. It's late, and I'm tired.

 

So, Garrand and I playtested these rules today, with Ivarr watching over us. Garrand chose to play his Adonese force vs. my Terran force for our beginning game. In the second game, he fielded a Rach force against my Terran force. Forces for both play tests will be listed prior to the results.

 

First play test: Squad can only call in as many strikes as their highest ranking FIST unit.

 

Adon Force (by platoon grouping):

Ogre, x3 Scorpions

x2 Centipedes (x2 Rifle Teams), x2 Fire Support Teams

Assessts: x2 4" Nuclear Cruise Missiles (Coup de Grace infantry, etc...not sure on name)

Assorted RAV & MOV upgrades

 

Terran Force:

Fire Support Team, Heavy Mortar Team x5

Fire Support Team, Heavy Mortar Team x5

Light Mortar Team, Fire Support Team

Tsuiseki x2

Assessts: 26 Strafing Runs

 

 

 

 

Turn 1 -

 

Activation 1: Terrans - FIST squad w/ Heavy Mortars

Call in three (3) strikes-

First strike catches a single Scorpion & the Ogre. Ogre is not damaged, Scorpion is critically struck, then a ten (10) is rolled. Scorpion is destroyed.

Second strike fails to damage Ogre and second Scorpion.

Third strike critical both Ogre and second Scorpion, but each only receives a single point of damage.

Three (3) Heavy Mortars target the damaged Ogre, but fail to hit due to drift.

 

Activation 2: Terrans - FIST squad w/ Heavy Mortars

Call in three (3) strikes-

First strike targets damaged Ogre and Scorpion. Damages Ogre once more. Scorpion is unhurt.

Second strike targets damaged Ogre and Scorpion. Fails to damage both CAVs.

Third strike targets damaged Ogre and Scorpion. Both CAVs suffer another point of damage.

Three (3) Heavy Mortars fail to damage the wounded Ogre due to drift and failure to puncture armor.

 

Activation 3: Terrans - FIST Squad w/ Light Mortar

Calls in two (2) strikes-

First strike targets damaged Ogre and Scorpion. Damages both CAVs for one.

Second strike targets damaged Ogre and Scorpion. Scorpion suffers no damage, Ogre is criticalled for three (3) points of damage. Ogre is destroyed.

 

Activation 4: Terrans - Tsuisekis

Calls in one (1) strike-

First strike targets a single Fire Support Squad. Damages and kills the Fire Support squad.

 

Activation 5: Adon - Infantry

Transports moved forward, Fire Support Squadsquad stays in place and calls in one "Nuke".

 

Activation 6: Adon - CAVs

Both Scorpions move forward, the wounded one taking cover.

Wounded Scorpion attempts to repair, fails.

Unwounded Scorpion Runs and Guns a Heavy Mortar Team, destroying it.

 

 

Turn 2 -

 

Activation 1: Adon - Infantry

Fire Support Squad calls in the second "Nuke".

The first "Nuke" detonates on four (4) Heavy Mortar Teams from both large squads, destroying them.

Transports move forward, one (1) moves into cover.

 

Activation 2: Adon - CAVs

Wounded Scorpion stays in cover and fails its attempt to repair.

Unwounded Scorpion destroys another Heavy Mortar Team

 

Activation 3: Terrans - Fire Support Squad & four (4) Heavy Mortars

Calls in three (3) strikes-

First strike targets unwounded Scorpion, fails to deal damage.

Second strike targets unwounded Scorpion, causes one (1) point of damage.

Third strike targets unwounded Scorpion, fails to deal damage.

2 Heavy Mortar Teams shoot at the formerly unwounded Scorpion, 1 scatters off target, the other causes one (1) point of damage.

 

Activation 4: Terrans - Fire Support Squad & two (2) Heavy Mortars

Calls in one (1) strike-

First strike targets badly wounded Scorpion, deals one (1) point of damage and destroys it.

Heavy Mortar Teams target the wreckage.

 

Activation 5: Terrans - Tsuisekis

One (1) Tsuiseki Runs and Guns the wounded and lone Scorpion. Damages once, return fire fails.

One (1) Tsuiseki Runs and Guns a Centipede for one (1) point of damage. Return fire yields one (1) point of damage on the Tsuiseki.

 

 

Turn 3 -

 

Activation 1: Terrans - Tsuisekis

One (1) Tsuiseki Salvos the Scorpion, destroying it. Return fire yields no damage.

One (1) Tsuiseki Salvos the Centipede, destroying it and the infantry. Return fire criticals Tsuiseki for two (2).

 

Activation 2: Terrans - Fire Support Squad & four (4) Heavy Mortars Squads

Calls in two (2) strikes-

First strike targets Fire Support Squad, destroying it.

Second strike targets Centipede, fails to damage it.

3 Heavy Mortars target Centipede, two (2) scatter off, the third inflicts one (1) point of damage.

 

Activation 3: Adon - Infantry

Transport attempts to hide.

"Nuke" targets unwounded Tsuiseki, and causes two (2) points of damage.

 

Activation 4: Terran - Fire Support Squad & two (2) Heavy Mortar Squads

Calls in three (3) strikes-

Destroys Centipede and its contained Rifle Squad.

 

The game ended at the end of the third turn, having been largely controlled by me. With the exception of his "Nuke" Cruise Missiles, his forces were largely ineffective against this force. While luck was on my side at the beginning of the game, with my forces all being activated before any of the Adonese forces, I was able to inflict a good deal of damage to his forces, but not as much as I potentially could have with better rolls. Likewise, with the inability to "premeasure" my opponent (Garrand) did make a mistake of in fielding his CAVs too close together. However, his forces covered the length of his desployment zone, and so there would have potentially been some targets that could be doubled up on.

 

 

With the second game, we used varied forces. My opponent decided to field an all CAV Rach force. I made some changes to my army, as Heavy Mortar Teams had fallen from my graces. With this playtest, we opted to use the "Scan for Fire" variant of the Strike rules.

 

Garrand's Rach Force (divided into platoons) -

Vanquishers x2, Khans x2

'70s Dictators x2, '60s Dictators x1

 

My Terran Force (divided into platoons) -

Heavy Hunter Team x8

Heavy Hunter Team x7

Tsuiseki x2

26 Strafing Runs

 

 

Turn 1 -

 

Activation 1 - Terrans - Heavy Hunter Team x8

Four (4) Strikes are called in on a Vanquisher for three (3) points of damage.

Four (4) Strikes are called in on a Vanquisher for two (2) points of damage.

 

Activation 2 - Terrans - Heavy Hunter Team x7

Three (3) Strikes are called in on heavily damaged Vanquisher, for two (2) points of damage. Vanquisher destroyed.

Four (4) Strikes are called in on the less ehavily damagewd Vanquisher, for three (3) points of damage. Vanquisher destroyed.

 

Activation 3 - Terrans - Tsuisekis

Two (2) Strikes are called in on the '60s Dictator, for one (1) point of damage.

 

Activation 4 - Rach - Khans

One (1) Khan moves forward and attacks a Heavy Mortar Team, resulting in a critical.

One (1) Khan moves forward and double criticals a second Heavy Mortar Team.

 

Activation 5 - Rach - Dictators

Both '70s Dictators Indirect fire at a Heavy Mortar Team, scattering off for no effect.

The '60s Dictator target a Tsuiseki, but scatter off for no effect.

 

 

Turn 2 -

 

Activation 1 - Terran - Heavy Hunter Squads x7 (wounded HHS x1)

Tough test is failed, Heavy Hunter Squad is removed from play.

Five (5) Strikes are called on '70s Dictator, for one (1) point of damage.

Two (2) Strikes are called on wounded '60s Dictator, critical is rolled, then a then (10). Wounded '60s Dictator is destroyed.

 

Activation 2 - Rach - Khans

Both Khans target a single Tsuiseki, for no damage. Return fire yields no damage.

 

Activation 3 - Terrans - Heavy Hunter Squads x7

Two (2) strikes are called onto both Khans.

The first hits both Khans for one (1) point of damage each.

The second hits both Khans for criticals. For one (1) Khan a two (2) is rolled, for no damage. For the other Khan, a ten (10) is rolled, resulting in its destruction.

5 Heavy Mortar Teams target the remaining Khan and manage to cause four (4) points of damage. The Khan was destroyed.

 

Activation 4 - Rach - Dictators

First '70s Dictator targets a Heavy Hunter Squad, and causes a point of damage. HHS is destroyed.

Second '70s Dictator targets the Tsuiseki for indirect fire, but it scatters off.

 

Activation 5 - Terran - Tsuisekis

Tsuisekis move and hide behind cover.

 

 

Turn 3 -

 

Activation 1 - Rach - Dictators

First '70s Dictator hits Tsuiseki for one (1) point of damage. Tsuiseki's return fire fails.

Second '70s Dictator, injured one, critically hits the other Tsuiseki, causes two (2) points of damage.

 

Activation 2 - Terrans - Heavy Hunter Squad x6 (Wounded x1)

Heavy Hunter Squad stands back up.

Heavy Hunter Squads move forward, towards the injured '70s Dictator. Five (5) shots are fired, resulting in one (1) point of damage. Return fire fails.

 

Activation 3 - Terrans - Heavy Hunter Squad x7

Heavy Hunter Squads converge on wounded '70s Dictator. Four (4) shots are fired, resulting in two (2) points of damage and a destroyed '70s Dictator.

 

Activation 4 - Terrans - Tsuisekis

Injured Tsuiseki converges towards the remaining '70s Dictator and repairs itself.

Other Tsuiseki performs a Run and Gun on the '70s Dictator, bringing it into point blank range. Tsuiseki criticals once and hits once, resulting in three (3) points of damage. '70s Dictator fails return fire.

 

 

Turn 4 -

 

Activation 1 - Terran - Tsuisekis

Tsuiseki already in point blank Salvos the '70s Dictator. Criticals once, destroys the '70s Dictator and receives one (1) point of damage from return fire.

Recently repaired Tsuiseki moves into point blank, peppers the smoldering remains.

 

 

In this scenario, due to my large amount of models on the field, I was able to draw a line of sight to at least one of his models from any of mine. It also helped that I mixed my platoons together, both to get LOS for the squad on any model, as well as the "just in case" scenario that he indirect fires into a group and damages multiples of my infantry. Also, in this game Garrand "premeasured" his deployment, keeping all of his models 13" away from each other. I would like to point out that n doing so, he left many of his models out of cover, and there were several places that a line was formed for "Wrecker" equipped CAVs to take advantage of. This was in no way his fault, but it was how he was forced to deploy in order to keep all his CAVs 13" inches away from each other.

 

I hope that these results are taken well by the community. While it does look as though I rolled many tens (10's) in these games, I rolled many twos (2's) and threes (3's) as well, and most all of my indirect fire from my Heavy Mortar Teams scattered five-six (5-6) inches.

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Thanks for posting the game break down.

 

A couple things I noticed though.

 

First and most importantly in the first game the Terrans were fielding an illegal force. Fire support teams are specialist. Specialist can only be fielded in specialist platoon. And you can only have four models in a specialist platoon and only one specialist platoon per task force. THis would have (maybe not drastically) changed the out come the game.

 

Second thing is Garrand's Adoneese really need some models with the Shredder SA. The Scorpion and orge are great models but against soft targets... it like bringing a knife to a gunfight. Helpfully in that 1000 pt order Garrand made some soft killers were included... if not proxy! The Rach force he used would have torn up the Terrans of the first game.

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This is why I wanted to see battle reports and force lists.

 

Not only is the terran force illegal because of FIST teams in more than one platoon, but that fist team can only call in a single strike per turn. Not the three that Inquisitor reports.

 

FIST/3 doesn't mean you can call in total assets per turn up to a total allocation of 3 with that model. It means that model can call a single strike with up to Allocation 3. The Mortar Teams don't have FIST/1, so they can't call strikes at all. At best the force listed by Inquisitor would have been able to pull off three strikes per turn, not three strikes per activation.

 

Ivarr's all FIST/1 infantry is a different matter and still requires some work, but the force inquisitor describes is just outside the realm of what the rules allow.

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This is why I wanted to see battle reports and force lists.

 

Not only is the terran force illegal because of FIST teams in more than one platoon, but that fist team can only call in a single strike per turn.  Not the three that Inquisitor reports. 

 

FIST/3 doesn't mean you can call in total assets per turn up to a total allocation of 3 with that model.  It means that model can call a single strike with up to Allocation 3.  The Mortar Teams don't have FIST/1, so they can't call strikes at all.  At best the force listed by Inquisitor would have been able to pull off three strikes per turn, not three strikes per activation.

 

Ivarr's all FIST/1 infantry is a different matter and still requires some work, but the force inquisitor describes is just outside the realm of what the rules allow.

dont forget he was playing Terrans, where everyting has FIST/1

 

I agree that as a support team it might be illegal, but as a rifle team would be perfectly legal (its a Primary and meets the minimum number of infantry in it).

 

And not sure where you are getting this "adept" type thinking of saying that a company can only have one FIST troop.

 

And he was calling in single strikes. if a platoon has 3 hex bases (3 units, 3 teams, etc...) then they have the ability to call 3 strikes. In this case he had like 17 teams... so he could call up to 17 per turn if he wanted to.

 

Nope everything he did looks legit to me.

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This is why I wanted to see battle reports and force lists.

 

Not only is the terran force illegal because of FIST teams in more than one platoon, but that fist team can only call in a single strike per turn.  Not the three that Inquisitor reports. 

 

FIST/3 doesn't mean you can call in total assets per turn up to a total allocation of 3 with that model.  It means that model can call a single strike with up to Allocation 3.  The Mortar Teams don't have FIST/1, so they can't call strikes at all.  At best the force listed by Inquisitor would have been able to pull off three strikes per turn, not three strikes per activation.

 

Ivarr's all FIST/1 infantry is a different matter and still requires some work, but the force inquisitor describes is just outside the realm of what the rules allow.

dont forget he was playing Terrans, where everyting has FIST/1

 

I agree that as a support team it might be illegal, but as a rifle team would be perfectly legal (its a Primary and meets the minimum number of infantry in it).

 

And not sure where you are getting this "adept" type thinking of saying that a company can only have one FIST troop.

 

And he was calling in single strikes. if a platoon has 3 hex bases (3 units, 3 teams, etc...) then they have the ability to call 3 strikes. In this case he had like 17 teams... so he could call up to 17 per turn if he wanted to.

 

Nope everything he did looks legit to me.

Specialist platoons may begin play with as few as one and as many as four models of any type or kind. A Task Force may only everhave a maxinum of one Specialist Platoon.

pg 5 of the beta rules

 

<b> specialist

The model may only be field in a Task Force as part of a Specialist Platoon.

pg. 24 of the beta rules

 

FIST/3, grenades, soft, Specailist

from the Fire Support Team Data Card

 

::D:

 

@ Erion

 

2. Play a game where the platoon calling the strikes is limited to calling strikes equal to the highest strike level in the platoon each turn. I.E. a all fist/1 platoon could only call one level one strike in a turn, or a platoon with a fist/3 could call a single level three or three level ones, or combination there of.

 

This part they did correctly.

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@ Erion

 

2. Play a game where the platoon calling the strikes is limited to calling strikes equal to the highest strike level in the platoon each turn. I.E. a all fist/1 platoon could only call one level one strike in a turn, or a platoon with a fist/3 could call a single level three or three level ones, or combination there of.

 

This part they did correctly.

 

EDIT:

I forgot that the terrans all get FIST/1. But the test is still invalid because the FIST/3 teams should only have been in a single, specialist platoon. Even with those playtest changes only one platoon in the force would be able to call more than one strike per turn, because the only models with more than FIST/1 belong in a specialist platoon.

 

Inquisitor was launching nine strikes per turn vs. the Adonese. In reality it would have been 6 at most. If we take the first six strikes in each turn as the ones used in each turn, you have an undamaged scoripion, an ogre on DT 2 and a Scorpion on DT3, plus all the adonese infantry left at the end of turn one. It would have been a much different game.

 

I'm still firmly of the opinion that giving every Terran model FIST/1 is the true root of the problem.

 

Also, were you guys requiring line of sight between models calling strikes and their targets? I couldn't find in any of the posts whether you did or not.

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Also, were you guys requiring line of sight between models calling strikes and their targets? I couldn't find in any of the posts whether you did or not.

 

I don't think Pat asked them to, but that is a good question.

 

I'm still of the opinion that strikes require line of site.

 

Jamie

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Pssttt.... Erion it was 8 strikes per turn.

 

Yes as I clearly stated (and quoted text) earlier, the first game the Terrans were fielding an legal force. The most those three platoon could have called was 5 strikes (1 each for the rifle platoons and three for the specialist platoon assuming they moved the two other errant Fire support Teams to the Specialist platoon).

 

The two deciding factors in both games was the Terrans gaining first intiative and the crits (which made up for the lack of strikes <_< ). Not to mention the Adoneese force that was fielded was design to fight against Hard targets. Garrand, really its ok to proxy if you don't have the models.

 

At any rate I think we can all agree the results from the first game were inconclusive.

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Also, were you guys requiring line of sight between models calling strikes and their targets? I couldn't find in any of the posts whether you did or not.

 

I don't think Pat asked them to, but that is a good question.

 

I'm still of the opinion that strikes require line of site.

 

Jamie

Or Scan for target for every model calling in a strike. Models with Wizzo could be an exception to this rule if another model with wizzo in the same troop already made the scan check.

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Once a legal force is tested with the FIST teams only in the single Specialist platoon allowed the outcome will be different. Especially testing the system where the number of strikes is restricted by the highest FIST rating in the platoon.

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Pssttt.... Erion it was 8 strikes per turn.

 

Yes as I clearly stated (and quoted text) earlier, the first game the Terrans were fielding an legal force. The most those three platoon could have called was 5 strikes (1 each for the rifle platoons and three for the specialist platoon assuming they moved the two other errant Fire support Teams to the Specialist platoon).

 

The two deciding factors in both games was the Terrans gaining first intiative and the crits (which made up for the lack of strikes <_< ).  Not to mention the Adoneese force that was fielded was design to fight against Hard targets. Garrand, really its ok to proxy if you don't have the models.

 

At any rate I think we can all agree the results from the first game were inconclusive.

No, It was nine

 

3 each from the two FIST/Hvy Mortar Squads.

2 From the FIST/Light Mortar Squads.

1 From the Flight of Tsuisekis

 

And they should have been able to call no more than six, since the Tsuisekis gain FIST/1 from the Terran Faction ability as well (3 from the specialist squad, 1 from each of the two mortar squads, and one from the Tsuisekis).

 

I agree that the Adonese force was ill-prepared for the Terrans they were facing, but I think that it would have been far less one sided had the proper number of strikes been used in each turn. A bishop or two wouldn't have hurt, instead of the scorpions. I find it very interesting that the WMD Cruise Missiles did not target the Terran FIST Teams specifically, as it seems the terrans were able to pick out and eliminate the Adonese FIST teams fairly easily. That would have gone a LONG way toward reducing strike capabiity in subsequent turns.

 

Against the terrain force listed I would include (using my Adonese forces)

2 Mantises -- four RAV 4 Direct Attacks each at 32" is not too shabby

2 Bishops -- AOE 3 Barrage at RAV5 or 2 RAV5 direct attacks vs. infantry. Even on it's last damage track any attack it makes is doing at least RAV 3 vs. infantry with no other modifiers.

 

4 Centipedes (infantry killers)

4 Heavy Shredder teams (infantry Killers)

 

1 Dragonfly to get the ESM in the middle of the board before the game even starts. Drop it behind some trees and let it start mischief.

 

One more question -- are you guys rolling one die for all model effected by a strike, or one die for each model damaged. It seems from reading the report that when a critical hit was rolled it was often effecting more than one model from each strike. While not impossible, it seems like it happened a lot.

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