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Carry Action


Lawgiver
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1. Is it valid for a Flyer potentially carry a living model of equal or lesser size to the rear of the enemy's lines and drop them into combat. Essentially acting like a helicoper/troop transport.

2. Can the carried model be shot at or can you only shoot the flyer?

3. Can a character with burrow do a carry action and still burrow underground?

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You can only carry an Object or a downed model, so any strategies involving getting one unit closer to another via a transport method aren't legal.

 

Unless you use Teleport, of course. Ask Storminator about that one. ::D:

 

Besides, it's not an efficient way of movement; each turn you're carrying an object you have to Invoke a Special Ability just to continue carrying it, so you'd only be able to move one movement action per turn.

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Thanks for the assist.

Besides, it's not an efficient way of movement; each turn you're carrying an object you have to Invoke a Special Ability just to continue carrying it, so you'd only be able to move one movement action per turn.

Well there are several flyers that even with only 1 movement action are faster than a walker's double move. The other case for efficiency would be crossing impassble terrain. Either way, it doesn't look like I'll be doing the Wizard of Oz Monkey airlift operation.

 

 

Also, #3 is still unanswered.

 

Another odd situation that requires one with greater authority to answer.

#4. If a Non-corporeal being is executing a Carry action do they lose the ability to pass through obstructions or does the item they are carrying become non-corporeal as well?

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#3: No, for the same reason you can't begin flying while carrying something. Using an Invoke Special Ability action causes you to drop anything you might be carrying.

 

#4: We've always played it as yes, they may Carry something through terrain. Though that's for the sake of simplicity.

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#1 -> Flying models cannot carry anything and still fly **

 

Models need to be in b2b contact in order to pick up an object, which means a Flyer needs to be landed.

In order to pick up a model, it needs to Invoke Special Ability to pick it up, and Invoke Special Ability every turn in order to continue carrying it. Flyers also need to Invoke Special Ability to go airborne. Since Invoke Special Ability is a Combat Action, you can only perform one or the other per activation.

 

#2 -> Irrelevant since #1 can't happen, unless **. Since the object has to be stunned, dead or inanimate, shooting the item is pointless since it can't be hurt.

 

#3 -> Burrow would be in the same situation, except underground instead of airborne.

 

#4 -> That's a nice little wrinkle.

 

 

** The only way to get around the flyer carrying an object bit, currently, is to be a Reven Player, using a Level 2, 25 point Cleric Spell - Quick Strike, which grants you an additional Combat Action. So you could cast it to pick up an item, use your other one to go airborne, and then move. Every further turn would require you to Invoke a Special Ability and you could then perform another Non-Combat Action, which would presumably be to move as fast as possible.

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Invoking my SA as a rules lawyer: :lol:

 

Page 59 of the rule book has a picture with the caption "Syphrilia performing a pickup and carry action to retrieve the body of her fallen comrade, Azarphan the Death Knight." So there has to be a way for any flier to pick something up and fly with it.

 

Turn 1: Move into btb with the object to be picked up. You are indeed now on the ground. Pick up the object. (This is NOT an invoke! It is a non-combat action described on page 59.)

 

Turn 2: Invoke SA to fly. Perform Carry Object action. (Also not an invoke! A non-combat action described on page 59.)

 

Turn 3: Perform Carry Object action. Move or do other non-combat actions while flying. (If you do a combat action, Loot or conduct defensive actions, you drop the object.)

 

EDIT: Ouch, that's the flaw! I apparently failed my die roll on rules knowledge when I invoked the rules lawyer SA. Turn 2, performing the Invoke SA to fly causes you to drop the object. The only way around this is for a flying figure to be in btb without being on the ground, which seems to be disallowed by the rules for flying models on page 58.

 

That's a darn stupid picture on page 59, as it incorrectly implies that there *should* be a way for a flying model to carry off a friendly body.

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Ok, we've covered this action before and after review we've decided to make a fundemental change to it that overrides any previous Erratas on this action.

 

 

The action was never meant to be a "Ride" action, it was meant to be a way to pick up immobile object and move them around. See page 59 of the Warlord Rulebook for the description of the action right after the Header. So the following text now applies to the Pick up/Carry Object action

 

A model that has positive Damage Tracks(ie has not been stunned nor Slain) may not be picked up or carried by another model. A model that is Stunned may be picked up or carried and may make its tough check on its next activation as described in the Toughness SA description. If the model makes its Toughness Check it is immediately dropped. If the model is being carried by a model that is either Burrowed or Flying and does not also have the appropriate ability (Burrow or Flyer) to survive at its current level (Burrowed or Flying) the player that controls the carrying model must immediately choose to come (Up/Down) to the surface (even if its not its turn) or the carried model is slain outright (not stunned).

 

Note: Models from the Crypt Legion operating with the Dark Energy Army Ability operate slightly differently. If dropped by a Flying model the model is stunned on the ground and is considered to have been coup'd removing any tough it had except the Tough +1 it recieves from Dark Energy. Models that have been buried alive by being dropped underground are not damaged and must spend both of their actions to return to the surface. This is a mandatory action.

 

Also, a Model may only be picked up by a model or Group of models that are in the same troop, that are equal or greater to its base size. A totem of battle requires a totel of 4 base size.

 

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That's a darn stupid picture on page 59, as it incorrectly implies that there *should* be a way for a flying model to carry off a friendly body.

 

The flying model can carry off the friendly body, it just can't do it while flying.

 

We need a Transport SA. :B):

 

PS

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The link is good, it answers some of the posters original questions. It doesn't answer the question in my previous post. Is it true that fliers can't fly while carrying something?

 

The action was never meant to be a "Ride" action, it was meant to be a way to pick up immobile object and move them around.

 

But a flier can't! Invoking the SA to fly means you drop the object you picked up earlier, because Invoking an SA is a combat action. Since being base-to-base with something seems to mean you have to be at the same level (on the ground), you can't be flying and perform a pick up action on something on the ground.

 

Given all the verbage about what happens when you drop something while flying with it, I can't believe this was intentional.

 

It's easy for me to make a house rule. I would rule that invoking an SA to fly, or to burrow, does not cause a model to involuntarily drop a carried object. (That's a one sentence change to both the Burrow and Fly SAs, rather than a whole new SA, Pete!) I would not change the requirement that models must land/surface to pick up an object (so that ground-bound units have an opportunity to defend a treasure from fliers and burrowers.)

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But a flier can't! Invoking the SA to fly means you drop the object you picked up earlier, because Invoking an SA is a combat action. Since being base-to-base with something seems to mean you have to be at the same level (on the ground), you can't be flying and perform a pick up action on something on the ground.

 

point taken

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Another odd situation that requires one with greater authority to answer.

#4. If a Non-corporeal being is executing a Carry action do they lose the ability to pass through obstructions or does the item they are carrying become non-corporeal as well?

 

This one seems clear to me. Noncorporeal is an SA of the model. Nowhere does any rule say or imply that picking up an object changes any SA of a model. Thus, a non-corporeal model that carries something is still non-corporeal.

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Another odd situation that requires one with greater authority to answer.

#4. If a Non-corporeal being is executing a Carry action do they lose the ability to pass through obstructions or does the item they are carrying become non-corporeal as well?

 

This one seems clear to me. Noncorporeal is an SA of the model. Nowhere does any rule say or imply that picking up an object changes any SA of a model. Thus, a non-corporeal model that carries something is still non-corporeal.

It's not a matter of the model's SA changing, but the object being carried. Depending on the movie you watch objects either become ethereal and pass through the walls as well or get stuck and can't be pulled/pushed through walls. Kind of like invisibility changes based on the movie/author, some force clothing to be removed, others extend the invisibility to objects carried.

 

Yes it's nitpicky, but...

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It's not a matter of the model's SA changing, but the object being carried. Depending on the movie you watch objects either become ethereal and pass through the walls as well or get stuck and can't be pulled/pushed through walls. Kind of like invisibility changes based on the movie/author, some force clothing to be removed, others extend the invisibility to objects carried.

 

Sure, I know what you're saying. I guess I didn't make it explicit, but I don't think that a carried object is a separate and distinct model anymore. It's become part of the carrying model until it's dropped. Thus, the SAs of the carrying model are what determine what happens.

 

But, let's suppose carried objects are indeed separate and distinct models. Speaking strictly in terms of game mechanics: the act of being carried must actually grant SAs to the carried object! A Flying creature would have to grant SA Fly to the object, or it's really dragging the object along the ground. Similarly, burrowers would grant SA Burrow, or the object is being drug around from underneath. If that's the case, I'd personally keep it symmetrical: non-corporeal models carrying an object, would grant non-corporeal SA to that object. (That's assuming burrowers or fliers are indeed allowed to carry anything.) ::):

 

I prefer the first interpretation, it's just so much easier to think about it. But either way you think about it, I believe it makes sense for the carried object to become non-corporeal.

 

YMMV.

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