The United Terran Federation

[Saint of Sinners]

*chuckles to him *

 

Now, Junior, I said they had three birds in the top ten... not the top three. And don't be confusing gunships with aerospace fighters. Now us Templars aren't above given credit when its due... and while it still pains me to admit such but the Malvies build a far nastier bird then both the Terrans and Templars. Trust me don't get in to a dogfight with a pair of Ghasts... they'll chew you up and spit you out before you know it. The Terrans can field more birds on average then anyone else... but that just means the anti-aircraft units get to earn their paychecks

[Outkast Samurai]

*grins back at him*

 

Now that's what I'm talking about. I want to know why each factions holds its own in the galaxy. So tell me why are the Templar so great?

[Sergeant_Crunch]

Here's a thread with a little bit of info on each faction. May help, may not help. You know, as often as this gets asked around here, maybe we should have a sticky thread on the characteristics of the various factions and what their strengths and weaknesses are.

For the humans their weakness is, well, for one thing they're human.

[Saint of Sinners]

*takes another belt from his flask*

 

I'm not gonna sit here and tell ya why the Templars are better... at least not in a room full of drunk legionnaires But I will point out a few flaws in the UFF. And just so ya know, back before I was Knighted by Vax himself and even before I made a name for myself fighting for HKI mercenary company, I was a legionnaire. Fought in the first great war. I know I don't look old enough but that's due to my mixed heretige. A li'l bit of Adonneese blood goes a long way...

 

The major flaw of the UFF is their inflated egos, second only to the Adonneese. For example, they love to brag about beating the Rach... not once but twice. Not to take away from their glory but the Templars have faced off against the Rach far more the twice. Hell, we've been butting heads with the Rach for centuries. And trust me, if we lose more fights then we won then we would be here now.

 

Another example of the UFF's ego is their Air superiority. Sure they can field more aircrafts but that about it. In the Templar motorpool we current have no less then three anti-aircraft units at our disposal.

 

The Terrans... zip.

 

And trust me I don't care how many planes you face, there isn't a platoon of Sabre that can't deal with them.

 

And sure any Terran unit can call in a strike, but at the same time this limits their resources. For example, Fire team A is calling for a strike the same time that Fire team B is... The only problem is there's only one artillery cannon availible.

[Outkast Samurai]

Well now, no AA units to keep the dang flyboys outta your hair? That tends to make a man inside a metal box with legs twitchy. Now is Viper going to produce armor for you or are they in a corporate bargining session? I mean Hughes-Marrietta has been making sure you have some nice equipment but if the battles start coming hard and heavy it would be nice to know that your second manufactuor is keeping your troops safe and supplied. (any concept art out for any of the Viper models?) And looking at the duelist gives me fond memories of the Rifleman. (hey don't laugh too hard. it wasn't bad once you fixed the glaring errors.....like armor. I swear on a windy battlefield you could hear the wind rustling through your cockpit.) So is there a spot in the cockpit for your sword once you're knighted? Can't see you wearing the thing while sitting in the command chair without skewering yourself.

[Saint of Sinners]

*looks over at a passed out Spartan.*

 

Guess I better get my jabs in before Spartan walks up.

 

*takes a final swig of his Mohr's Milk*

 

For the most part, the swords are ceremonial and aren't practical on the battlefield. This isn't to that there aren't a few hardcore romantics that carry around battle-worthy swords in the Templar ranks. I know of at least one regiment that has a tradition carring blades into battle.

 

As for a compartment for swords, I don't know any CAV or vehicle that doesn't have a weapons locker somewhere on their chasis or in the cockpit. Usually they are filled with standard survival gear, but I suppose you could squeeze in a sword.

 

*takes a swig from Spartan's beer*

 

Now Viper has revealed only one of their new toys for the Templars. The Mamba... it kind of looks like the Stiletto but with dual GGCs.

 

Looks like Spartan is waking up. *Finishes Spartan's beer* Now the Dingo is an excellent unit... oh, hey Spartan, have a nice nap.

 

Bartender! Another round for the Legion's finest

[Outkast Samurai]

*tipping back the bottle finishing off the contents pondering how to phase this so that its safe to either sign up or still make it out in one piece*

Ok say I was running a basic Terran force of say a Ronin, Katana, Regent, and an Archer backed up by a pair of Tsuiseki leaving enough rescources for some strikes. (a 2000 pt force) and lets say it was going up against a Knight, Sovereign III, Duelist, and a Crusader backed up by a pair of Longbows as well as an armored platoon of two Flails and a Sabre. (another 2000 pt force) It just seems that given the same rescources that the Templars may be a hard nut to crack. Looking over the Terran reserves it seems that despite being able to field more flights there is a suspicious lack of less expensive gunships to take advantage of that ability. Don't get me wrong, the Tsuiseki is a killer ship. Literally. I'd like to hear from some battlefield vets about the outcome of these forces as well as some suggestions as to what you'd do.

 

(I think that using 2000 pts has skewed my views in trying to put together forces. What is a usual point value for a fighting force? Although pound for pound the Templars are looking real good)

[Saint of Sinners]

Yeah, the Tsuiseki are nasty. Think of them as CAVs with wings. They command a lot of respect on the field and on the check book.

 

Regents are excellent. Back in my merc days they were standard issue in our Rapid Response Teams. The only way the Regent could be better is if it had an AA capacity. The other Mitsu-Ta CAVs I've never been to fond of.

 

The Crusader... that's my current ride. The only problems I've had is that its a guass round magnet and its a pain to get my wizzo's big furry butt in the back seat. Of course, getting a seven and half foot tall Koborlas squeezed in any cockpit isn't easy. And just for the record, I'm currently been assigned to the 2nd Bohemian Guard Regiment's Scout CAV platoon. The rest of my section consists five Spartans.

 

The Knight is the most versatile unit in any faction. One of my fellow Knight Commanders in the 2nd BGR field one. She has this whole Servitude Leadership angle... something about supporting her troops. I don't know... she's a Ritterlich... hot though

 

Soveriegn III... simply the best Fire support platform.

 

Duelist are good up close brawlers.

 

Flails... they are good... but saddly the Malvies' Outlaw is better.

 

Sabres... never run without them.

 

Longbows... I hate to say it but the Kikyu is better. The Mitsu-Ta bird can hunt other gunships in a pitch.

 

Now comparing the force you suggested, the Templars if depatched right can nullify the Terrans strikes with their AA units, the Soveriegn and the sabres. Mostly it would come down to being a knock down drag out fight. If I had to a bet on the winner...

 

If I was the Terran commander I'd focus on taking out the Soveriegn first. Take cover and hit it with every IFM the CAVs could muster and missles from the Tsuisekis that I could. That would open up a whole load of pain for the Templars. Then have the Archer call in strikes the other CAVs, and then have the others mop rest. Without the Soveriegn the Templar CAV platoon vernerable. Without the CAV platoon the Longbows, Flails, and sabres become easy pickings.

 

On the other, end. The Tsuisekis most die... fast. Then focus on the Ronin. The Archer would have the lowest threat rating.

 

*pokes Spartan to see if still alive*

[Crazy8]

For the love of... I swear, you head out of town for a few days to get away from the front lines and you come back to the Templar running amok in our grand hall. I'd rather have a Rach infestation...

 

Outkast Samurai it's good to hear you are considering the United Federal Forces as your faction of choice. My fellow Legionnaires and I look forward to the possibility of taking to the field of battle with you someday. Hopefully you haven't let Saints pied piper routine turn you yet. Let me field some of your questions and show you the TRUE UFF.

 

Airpower: Hands down, if you like to rule the skies, the UFF is the place to be. Lets be honest, on todays battlefield ruling the air is a large part of a winning strategy. No one does it better then the UFF. Here is a little side by side comparison:

 

Terran Gunship "Kikyu": Wizzo, Linked and (this is the big kicker) Shredder. For a very reasonable 185 points. This is the bird that enemy infantry and gunships fear. Remember, all gunships are considered "soft" targets which gives any unit with shredder an advantage when engaging them. What does this mean for the UFF... we have a dedicated Battlefield Air Superiority fighter in the Kikyu. It can sweep enemy gunships from the sky with ease and it even packs a missile attack just in case anything armored wanders a bit to close.

Templar Gunship Equivalent "Longbow": Garbage. Utter garbage. You'd have better luck with hang glider equipped hunter infantry then these "Gunships". No Wizzo, no Shredder and a movement range 2 inches less then the Kikyu. The local UFF flight school teaches their cadets the basics of shooting down enemy gunships using Longbow targets, because even cadets can shoot one of these tin foil coated paper airplanes out of the sky.

 

Terran Gunship "Harpy": Ahhh... the jack of all trades UFF gunship. Don't quite know what your enemy will be fielding on the battlefield and afraid to commit to an anti-infantry or anti-armor air support? Then the Harpy is exactly what the doctor ordered. Mounting a single DA and MA the Harpy has the ability to engage a wide spectrum of targets. Throw in the PBG SA and it makes an extremely effective CAV finisher. Managed to whittle down that Super Heavy with IF attacks but can't engage it because of screening forces? Send in a flight of Harpys and watch that overpriced Paladin clunker bite the dust. And don't let those Templar boys fool you with all their Shielding talk, a PBG cuts through Shielding like a hot knife through butter... you can almost hear the critical hits piling up from here.

Templar Gunship Equivalent "Crossbow": Well, I guess I could try and make an argument that the Crossbow is even a remote challenger to the Harpy... but then I would be misleading you. If the Longbow is Garbage the Crossbow is Compost. This is another poor Templar air design. Again, those hunter teams with hang gliders would be a better bet then these... things. About the only thing they've got going for them is Wizzo... but with no weapon SA's they are just another annoying fly to be swatted out of the air.

 

Terran Gunship "Tsuiseki": The Beast. When it absolutely, positively must be destroyed from the air accept no substitutes. The Tsuiseki's battlefield prowess is already well known. It is a SUPERB Templar hunter. With the Hunter and PBG SA's you are a crit seeking killer. Add a PAIR of missile attacks to back it up and you have the makings of a Gunship that can wipe out armor and CAVs with ease. Got a couple of Templar light CAVs trying to turn your flank.... call in a flight of Tsuiseki's and watch the armor fly. That silly Templar commander trying to sneak some armor into effective combat range... call in those Tsuiseki's for another round and before you know it you'll be BBQing burgers off the still smoldering tank treads.

Templar Gunship Equivalent... um, nothing.

 

You were right the first time... the UFF fields the three BEST Gunships in the game. It all depends on what you want from a gunship on that particular day.

 

Now, lets discuss CAV's. Personally I'm a Syramophile myself. However, I do field and have much respect for our Mitso-Ta driving brethern.

 

Using your force vs. force with MT units squaring off against a Templar unit I can tell you hands down the Terran unit would come out on top. Here's why...

 

The Sovereign III. Now, Saint will tell you it's "the best fire support platform ever." Is it really? Not so much. The Regent gives you all the exact same SA's PLUS an extra 3 inches of movement. Doesn't sound like much now but it allows the Regent to gain cover quicker, respond to unexpected events faster and allows you to disengage easier. While your Regent is keeping pace with your CAV platoon his Sovereign III is falling behind and quickly losing the benefit that the Counter Battery SA gives a Fire Support CAV when keeping close contact with his squadmates.

 

The Knight. "Most versatile unit of any faction." Hardly. The Katana is a far better "Jack of all Trades" CAV. Granted the Knight has Hunter but it only has 1 direct attack. If you miss... that's it. That Flamer/3 isn't going to help you any. Now the Katana has TWO direct attacks... and guess what, if you miss, it has something pretty nifty called Linked/2. What does that mean? You get to reroll any missed DA's. In essence you are getting FOUR chances to score a hit against the Knight. 4 chances vs. 1??? I'll take those odds any day.

 

Flails and Sabres. Tsuiseki bait. And don't let the Sabres AA SA scare you. It gives no kind of range band modifier and the Sabres range is 28, while the Tsuiseki sits at 32. You'll be rolling in your first range band while the Sabre is rolling to hit you with a negative modifier.

 

Longbow. I think we've already covered this ground...

 

The Crusader. Wizzo with Linked/2 could cause a bit of heart burn. However, the Ronin matches it in range and also gives you an extra DV. The big kicker is the Crusaders lack of Indirect Attacks. You can drop round after round on it from long range and whittle it down long before it gets to you. Use the Archer and the Ronins Indirects to whittle down the Crusader and then gang bang it to knock it out of the battle. After that you can turn on the Duelist with little fear.

 

Finally the strike question. Granted there is the possibility of negating strikes with AA fire but is that really a risk you'd want to take every single time you went up against a Terran force as a Templar commander. And the fact that once your AA units are smoked you have no chance to stop them at all means a smart Terran commander will AA hunt, or simply save their strikes for units that get seperated from their AA partners... and THAT is bound to happen.

 

So you see, when you boil it all down, those Templar guys are just full of hot air. They prance around here spouting their rhetoric and it sounds good... but when you dig past the glossed over finish you realize that being a Templar is alot like hooking up with your cousin, sure it's fun at the time but later, after you've been ostracized by society and are living in a van down by the river, you realize just how wrong of a choice that really was.

Choose the wise choice. The UFF choice. You won't regret it. Plus, the UFF has the best benefits package in the Galaxy! We take care of our own!

[Spartan6]

Yeah, what he said. LOL There's a reason he's minister of information. LOL

 

 

Stop drinking my beer.

 

 

Vax Spiro, the Templar grand-poobah or whatever, is nothing more than some weirdo with a god complex.

 

The bottom line is this- The Terrans have the best heavy CAV there is, the Starhawk 6. The best Super heavy there is, the Thunderbird. They can throw around indirect fire like beads at Mardi Gras and they have twice the airpower of any other faction. AA guns aren't really much of a factor in games when they can't fire fast enough to prevent the very aircraft they're supposed to shoot down from blowing them up.

 

So, if you're into following megalomaniacs around and smiling enough to make a used car salesman uncomfortable, by all means join the Templars. If you're more interested in belonging too a faction that has gotten it done time and time again against long odds? Well, you're in the right hall.

 

 

Someone throw the Templar and his pamphlets out and tell him to stop bothering good people so early in the morning or we'll make him a chalk outline outside as a warning to the others.

[Outkast Samurai]

*grabbing the data slab and hammering out a new force configuration. * Let's try using a main CAV force of a Katana, Regent, and a pair of Archers backed up by two flights. One of a Tsuiseki and a Kikyu and the other a pair of Kikyu. Now to be fair let's mix up the Templar force a bit. Sticking with the same CAV unit of a Knight, Sovereign III, Duelist, and Crusader but leaving in only 1 Longbow. Then putting in a unit of 3 Sabres and backing them up with a Czar transport with a heavy and light mortar team.

The way I see this one is despite the larger numbers and the advantage of combined arms the 3 Kikyu's are going to eat the infantry. The AA advantage of the Sabres will make it rough for them to shread through them so it looks like an even balance between abilities and speed so hard to call having not seen them in action. The Tsuiseki will make a nice harasser to keep the Templar CAVs on their toes but without a second one the Sovereign is going to eat it for lunch. The Knight and Katana are well paired off workhorses with the Katana having a slight advantage according to C8 *tipping my hat to the Legionnaire*. The Regent has a good speed advantage over the Duelist and can pick it apart while the Archers play with the Crusader. A rough fight but it seems that the Terrans have it mainly because of the shredder ability. Although if the Sabres take the initive it could swing the battle in one heck of a hurry. And although I'm not sure exactly how it works I think the fact that 3 of the 4 Templar CAVs having rugged and not a single Terran one possessing this may hurt if the battle drags out in the slightest. Or have I got this whole concept backwards?

[ReaperShaun]

/Head explodes from all the C8 and Spartan6 Propoganda/

[Saint of Sinners]

Talk about disinformation...

 

Its funny with all the Terrans talk about advance networking and communication, they seem to be a bit behind on their intel. For example, the Knight's single PBG is linked. The Knight also sports a IFM and a DFM like the Katana. The big difference between the knight and the Katanna is the flame thrower. The Flamer may have short range but it makes up for with its Area of effect. And its just as effective as the Katanna's LBGs are against hard and even better against soft.

 

And I'm glad Spartan brought up the topic of the Starhawk VI. Since the recent acquisition H-M, the Templar chroniclers uncovered a few interesting documents involving the SH6 and the recent merger attempt between SyRam and H-M. I've undoubtedly said too much on the situation already but... Honestly, anyone with half a brain should have noticed the simularities between the SH6 and H-M CAVs.

 

AA not a threat? All an aircraft has to do is shot near or get close to an AA unit and they will instigate defensive fire from it. And as cheap as the Sabres are its easy to field 12 of the li'l beasties creating a protective umbrella from Aircraft and strikes.

 

I'm not gonna sit here and tell you that the Terrans have subpar equipment. Because its not true. Just like any other faction they have their weakest as well as their strength.

 

What it all boils down to is what kind of soldier do you want to be. The kind that gets deployed with outdated intel and out right false promises? or would you like to be a soldier out there making a difference in the galaxy.

 

The only thing the Templar Nation promises is a chance to make things right. What you do with that chance is up to you.

[Crazy8]

Talk about disinformation...

 

Its funny with all the Terrans talk about advance networking and communication, they seem to be a bit behind on their intel. For example, the Knight's single PBG is linked. The Knight also sports a IFM and a DFM like the Katana. The big difference between the knight and the Katanna is the flame thrower. The Flamer may have short range but it makes up for with its Area of effect. And its just as effective as the Katanna's LBGs are against hard and even better against soft.

 

And I'm glad Spartan brought up the topic of the Starhawk VI. Since the recent acquisition H-M, the Templar chroniclers uncovered a few interesting documents involving the SH6 and the recent merger attempt between SyRam and H-M. I've undoubtedly said too much on the situation already but... Honestly, anyone with half a brain should have noticed the simularities between the SH6 and H-M CAVs.

 

AA not a threat? All an aircraft has to do is shot near or get close to an AA unit and they will instigate defensive fire from it. And as cheap as the Sabres are its easy to field 12 of the li'l beasties creating a protective umbrella from Aircraft and strikes.

 

I'm not gonna sit here and tell you that the Terrans have subpar equipment. Because its not true. Just like any other faction they have their weakest as well as their strength.

 

What it all boils down to is what kind of soldier do you want to be. The kind that gets deployed with outdated intel and out right false promises? or would you like to be a soldier out there making a difference in the galaxy.

 

The only thing the Templar Nation promises is a chance to make things right. What you do with that chance is up to you.

 

Disinformation!? Disinformation!?

Unless you Templars have something in the works your Knight does not have Linked/1. I'm looking at the 1.5 datacards now and... nope, no Linked. So the Katana's STILL got 4 chances to a Knights 1 to cause damage before it can get in range of that little sparkler you call a flamethrower.

[Outkast Samurai]

The Knight gets linked due to the way the model was sculpted sorry to anyone who doesn't agree. But as its been pointed out, it has a base RAV of two, the linked and hunter does add to its lethality but not in a over powering way.

 

Mad Pat

 

It may not be on the card yet but its coming most likely in the next revision unless something major has changed recemtly.

That really makes the Knight the workhorse for the Templars, as it should be, seeing they are knights themselves.