I love cavalry!

[mooseyjoe]

I like to use the "loose swarm" technique against cavalry.

 

have all your grunts in a loose group waiting for the cavalry. when they get there tey will have a tendency to only be able to attack a few of these loosely grouped grunts. Now that they are here and it is your turn it is time to swarm them. If you really try you can put 8 models on a cavalry base. This pretty much means that you have an auto kill (wouldn't recomend actually filling up all 8 locations. Your last 4 or 5 grunts out of the eight would be better used killing something else).

 

another trick is the solo trap. Choose a 50 point solo oe elite, preferably with a larger than normal base (river trolls seem to fit the bill perfectly for me) and one of those 45-50 point mages all the factions seem to have. lastly take a firestorm (not the ball, take the storm, it is sooooo much more spell for the extra 25 points). Charge your big solo towards the cavalry (or skeletons, goblins, crimson knights, bondslaves, etc.) when he gets there the enemy will have to swarm him to kill him quick, or face being picked off one at a time by this big solo that just attacked their ranks. Once they are surrounding your big boy (he will probably be dead at this point) let 'em have it with that firestorm you brought into range earlier. This is one of the most effective ways to crispify a whole troop at a time, especially since a wise opponent will have avoided formations since that is just asking for a fireball.

[shakhak]

Just some food for thought, but the Special Ability Piker, was printed up in the newer rules.

I am pretty sure it's only a matter of time before they start to hit the field, and I imagine they will be a bit cheaper than your average Cavalry.

So just when you think your archers are ruined, we have a little love triangle between the Cav., Archers, and Pikers.

[Storminator]

Man! Go away for a week and your thread explodes.

 

1) Rock, Paper, Scissors. It's real.

 

Archers beat grunts. Old news, moving on. Cavalry beats archers. Yup, fast enough to get to the archers quick (sometimes the archers won't even get an activation before the cav move from out-of-range to in-B2b-and-attacking), and the Cavalry special ability means archers have a tough time hitting. Now the third leg, grunts beat cavalry. Typical cavalry have 1 attack, MAV2, and DV 9 or 10. About the same as a regular 20 point grunt. But cavalry cost 40+ points, and come in troops half the size, and are adepts so you can't get more. So grunts are about as good as cavalry in melee combat, for less than half the cost.

 

RPS is real.

 

2) elves don't need cavalry, they need Pikers. I'm guessing they'll get them.

 

3) Darthiir, you panicked. I know, because I've seen you use tactics that would have helped you, and you forgot them all. In previous games you've deployed all your models near my fastest models, so my slowest ones had farthest to go and you could kill everything else before they got there. This time, you deployed all your models as far from the cavalry as possible, so the cavalry and my infantry arrived within 1 turn of each other, and you got swarmed. If my Deathriders had to face your Deathseekers alone, they would have been slaughtered. You also forgot 100+ points worth of equipment, which seriously ruined your day. Your Treeman, had he been deployed a little closer to your archers, could have swept the cavalry away.

 

All that said, it was your first time vs cavalry. There are some things you'll need to change. Keep some warriors (not Deathseekers, just cheap ol' warriors) in the same troop as your archers. Remember that cavalry are inconvienently sized and shaped, and have a difficult time manuevering in tight quarters. Use your warriors to give them problems. Also, hit the cavalry once, and then your archers are faster than they are, and will hit them easily.

 

4) Glad to see the snipping was over before I got back...

 

PS

[drjsallison]

The loose cluster tactic is great a slowing a calvalry charge. The only flay is that Sir Gadrun is unstopable if there is a hole in the line (dis 9) he can break B2B all day and not worry about becoming shaken. Deathriders have a 70% chance of blowing by a line. I don;t think many would risk the shaken token to charge through a lose cluster, but I wonder....

 

Has anyone used a charge through such a formation successfully ? How much can calvary move around models when making facing changes? Does it move all or a limit of one? Can the facing change be made if doing so will break a B2B contact? (ex: enemy at front and rear, face change to put enemies on flanks will cause 1 to lose contact). Is lost contact ignored and model moved to remain in B2B?

[Qwyksilver]

Defender adjusts can be made but only if they do not break existing base to base contacts, which is why surrounding a closed rank of cavalry is very dangerous to the cavalry, because 2nd man in will be on the rear base side.

 

If you're talking about an attacker adjust, yeah, you could shift so only one model was in b2b with you, but you'd need to make a successful discipline check to do this.

[mooseyjoe]

the loose cluster gives me the best results in defensive situations. It works really well when defending your mage / cleric / totem / archers.

[vutpakdi]

I'm wondering where real world cavalry tactics, strengths, and weaknesses come into play here. It's only speculation on my part though since I have yet to find a demo game of Warlord (hasn't stopped me from starting to assemble and paint a Reven force).

 

Cavalry, in the real world, was a terror for foot troops (melee and ranged) unless they had pikes or some other way to reduce the speed and maneuver advantages (and discipline). Lots of long sharp pointy things (stakes and pikes) seemed to be quite popular, and the classic square formation was the best. Loose formations seem to have been the worst idea since disciplined cavalry could charge and blow through to maintain the advantage of speed adding to the blows (and shock value).

 

I suppose a square wouldn't really work in Warlord since that would invite a fireball or two.

 

As a few people have already suggested, bogging down the cavalry with grunts reduces their ability to maneuver. If memory serves, in the real world, cavalry did its best to avoid being bogged down and just blow through as much as possible (which was probably pretty hard unless they had a very disciplined force).

 

Ron

[Storminator]

I'm wondering where real world cavalry tactics, strengths, and weaknesses come into play here. It's only speculation on my part though since I have yet to find a demo game of Warlord (hasn't stopped me from starting to assemble and paint a Reven force).

 

Cavalry, in the real world, was a terror for foot troops (melee and ranged) unless they had pikes or some other way to reduce the speed and maneuver advantages (and discipline). Lots of long sharp pointy things (stakes and pikes) seemed to be quite popular, and the classic square formation was the best. Loose formations seem to have been the worst idea since disciplined cavalry could charge and blow through to maintain the advantage of speed adding to the blows (and shock value).

 

I suppose a square wouldn't really work in Warlord since that would invite a fireball or two.

 

As a few people have already suggested, bogging down the cavalry with grunts reduces their ability to maneuver. If memory serves, in the real world, cavalry did its best to avoid being bogged down and just blow through as much as possible (which was probably pretty hard unless they had a very disciplined force).

 

Ron

 

 

Consider that the cavalry we've been discussing, the Deathriders (and goblin Beastriders go here too) are pretty much light cavalry. They really aren't the holy terror of late Medieval/early Renaissance heavy cavalry. If instead, you had an entire troop of Onyx Chevaliers, with DV 12, MAV 4, Shock and First Strike, you would be talking about terror for foot troops. They really would blow away lines of defenders, and if they weren't bogged down, could continue to shatter formation after formation with the First Strike ability.

 

But those models cost 75 points each. A single troop, a leader and 4 Chevies, would cost ~350 points, and could reasonably expect to be opposed by 15-20 grunts. Just like in the real world, a force of cavalry costs as much as an army.

 

PS

[Sergei]

Consider that the cavalry we've been discussing, the Deathriders (and goblin Beastriders go here too) are pretty much light cavalry. They really aren't the holy terror of late Medieval/early Renaissance heavy cavalry. If instead, you had an entire troop of Onyx Chevaliers, with DV 12, MAV 4, Shock and First Strike, you would be talking about terror for foot troops. They really would blow away lines of defenders, and if they weren't bogged down, could continue to shatter formation after formation with the First Strike ability.

 

But those models cost 75 points each. A single troop, a leader and 4 Chevies, would cost ~350 points, and could reasonably expect to be opposed by 15-20 grunts. Just like in the real world, a force of cavalry costs as much as an army.

 

PS

 

God.......can't wait for the Crusader and O'Lord Heavy Calvery!!!!!!

[Qwyksilver]

Yeah, I'm wishing the Bull Orc Hunters or the Lesser Orc Spearmen had gotten Piker.

 

Oh well, that's what cheap fodder is for.

Oh Gobbies!!! C'mere. Need you to go play pin the sword on the horsie>

[Castlebuilder]

Ron,

 

While I won't claim to be an expert, I consider myself pretty well read on military tactics. Cavalry, no matter how "heavy" it might be, is not a freight train that runs over tight formations of infantry. The horses are too smart to run into a solid line of troops. Cavalry excells at running down dispersed, preferably fleeing, units and harassing the rear areas.

 

The battle of Hastings in 1066 is a great example. The Norman knights could not break the Saxon shield wall, even though much of it was made up of fairly poor quality troops. Once they started feigning retreats and then turning on the Saxons who broke formation and chased them, the battle turned around to the cavalry's advantage. Throw in a lucky arrow shot (natural 10) on the Saxon King, and the history of England changed forever.

 

Properly used cavalry will harass the rear area and try to snipe expensive troops and archers. If an enemy troop needs hit in the rear to weaken it, that's the job of the cavalry.

 

Don't be afraid to use your cavarly to threaten units, then ignore them. Even if they aren't killing stuff, if cavarly can make the enemy commit valuable troops chasing it, the battle can be significantly affected. An example of this was the last game I played. I spent a couple turns using 150 points or so of Goblin Beastriders chasing down a single Elfin Centaur. It worked out that time, but technically I wasted valuable assets killing a troop that was half my value.

 

Let you cheap infantry engage the enemy infantry an tie it up. That's what cheap infantry does best. Your heavy (expensive, hard hitting) infantry can follow them and mop up leaders or stubborn individuals. So far I think Warlord plays pretty close to historically correct, which is why I am so sold on it. (Historically correct in a fantasy game - is that an oxymoron?) As cavarly starts coming into play, that is going to really show itself.

 

Castlebuilder

[mooseyjoe]

I have found that this troop commitment is the most valueable aspect of cavalry. When i see those deathriders on the board I can either commit troops to fight them (which means a whole lot of my army is standing around doing nothing waiting for the deathriders to show up because no way can we chase deathriders down) or I ignore them and they pick off a mage or cleric or pretty much anything that gets off by itslef.

 

They force me to make a choice and pick the lesser of two evils. This is exactly what I don't want. I want to make my enemy pick evils and not deal with any size of evil for myself.

[vutpakdi]

While I won't claim to be an expert, I consider myself pretty well read on military tactics. Cavalry, no matter how "heavy" it might be, is not a freight train that runs over tight formations of infantry. The horses are too smart to run into a solid line of troops. Cavalry excells at running down dispersed, preferably fleeing, units and harassing the rear areas.

 

I guess that I didn't express myself too clearly. Yes, I agree that cavalry doesn't do well again tight, well packed and disciplined formations with pointy things which look like they form a solid mass (squares, for example). That's why I said that loose (infantry) formations seemed to be a bad idea historically if there were cavalry in the picture.

 

I wonder if there will be rules for increased damage (MAV) for being on the receiving end of a charge? Seems like that would be appropriate since the momentum of the horse should help with the blow.

 

Ron

[mooseyjoe]

I would say that giving cavalry first strike would be a good simulation of this effect. if you get hit by pointy stick with a 1000 pounds of knight and horse behind it you won't hit the other guy back. The current cavalry seems to be less of the pounding-horseman type and more of the ride up and swing at em with my little sword type.