Independents

[Crazy8]

How about a spotter? I like the H-M Spartan...

 

 

I might go with a Raptor as a spotter. Just to get the Chain Fire SA matchup with the Specter.... maybe not though...

[garm]

Well Garm's Dragoons are the mistaken Adonese force that Spartan stomped at RAC. I have yet to organize the roster to a final list as the unit trains to be very flexible and can mix and match as needed. Alot of Adonese equipment in the unit as I love the look of the equip. Also have alot of Koda and KDM in the unit. Have not set up much in infantry as I am waiting to get the final set up for the infantry bases. Without infantry the Dragoons can field 15,711 points of CAVs and vehicles before upgrades to anything.

 

I am currently trying to motivate myself to finish painting the last 5 or 6 CAVS and about 3/4 the vehicles and most all my infantry. I am also trying to get my schedule adjusted to try and get to the Asylum more often to try and get out of B-tech tatics in CAV games, as all it will get me is stomped hard.

 

Garm

[ReaperShaun]

"Remember your training and you will survive"

[EntilZha]

NEW MERC FORCE

 

Got a problem? The Steel Talons can handle it for you, at reasonable rates.

 

Our Motto: "Anywhere in the Galaxy"

 

Our Emblem: http://img134.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=l...teel_Talons.jpg

 

(Drawn fairly simply on account of I'm not too good at drawing )

 

Uniforms:

 

http://img43.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=...n_Male_42lo.jpg

 

http://img28.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=..._Female_7lo.jpg

[Wraithshadow]

So I've gotten started on figuring out what I want to pick up for a freelance force. There's still some hashing over just what to pick up though, so I'm soliciting opinions.

 

Criteria

My primary criteria is pretty simple: do I like the model? It's terribly subjective, I know- but that's the big thing for me in narrowing down my choices. From there it's mostly a case that I'm trying to have only a few different types on the board, rather than a patchwork of dozens of designs. I'm sticking with CAV 1 stats for now, just because they're set in stone and I don't know what's going to end up being definite with CAV 2, so I can't evaluate on that.

 

Superiority CAVs

My theory on superiority CAVs is that the job boils down to one, very simple task: the speedy elimination of enemy CAVs, particulary other superiority CAVs. This means that a superiority CAV should be able to deliver a huge punch to the target as well as be able to move quickly across the battlefield to administer the beating. The ability to eliminate soft targets or make indirect fire attacks is useful but ultimately the job of other elements in the force, so in the interest of getting the most bang for the buck, I'm looking at indirect fire or decent soft-killing capability as point sinks.

• Mantis - My #1 choice for the job, due to a combination of respectable speed, firepower, and minimal waste. Plus, it ranks as one of the best looking CAVs in existence in my book.
  
• Starhawk VI - The Starhawk VI is something I keep trying to come with excuses to take as part of the force. It looks great, it's fast, it hits very hard, it's accurate, it's durable as heck- but it has a pricetag to match all that goodness. I'm considering whether or not I could justify it as my 'Super Heavy' due to the comparable pricetag.
  
• Chancellor - It's a little tougher than the Mantis, but it isn't as good at killing CAVs and it's more expensive. The big thing the Chancellor has going for it in my book is I think it looks really neat. But once it gets to the datacard, the Mantis just flat out wins on a point to point scale.
  

Suppression Fire CAVs

To me, suppression fire is a misnomer. The role of the suppression fire unit is not to suppress- the role is to brutally eliminate anything the superiority CAVs can't deal with efficiently. Gunships, fighting vehicles, infantry, missiles- if it isn't a CAV or a tank, suppression fire units are capable, at a very reasonable price, of eliminating it in a very brutal fashion. To some degree this overlaps with support fire, given that the latter tends to be good at eliminating the same targets, but suppression fire simply does it better.

• Sabretooth - There's just not that much competition here. The Ghost is nowhere as good at it, the Knight has an extremely limited range- the only other suppression CAV to consider is the Vanquisher, and what advantages it has in terms of speed are utterly outclassed in firepower, threat range (movement + weapon range), accuracy, and point cost. The Sabretooth is quite simply the best at what it does.
  

Support Fire CAVs

This is probably the most vexing category because there's three things I'm trying to balance for best effect. First, there's raw effectiveness. How much damage can be done, and to what? Indirect fire tends to be less damaging than direct fire, so there's no +6's or +7's to look for, but a support fire unit that can add some extra punch to a fight is helpful- moreso if it can take on both hard and soft targets. Of course, if it can hurt both hard and soft targets, it probably isn't all that good at either one. The second big issue is area of effect. The bane of indirect fire is drift. In as much as you may never get more than one unit under a template, a larger area of effect mitigates drift troubles by allowing you more leeway in hitting the target. So a larger area of effect is better. Third and finally, there's range. The more distance between the support fire unit and the target, the less likely the support fire unit can be engaged or retaliated against. Further, a unit with a huge range can support multiple units while remaining far behind the lines, increasing utility to the force as a whole.

• Sovereign III - The Sovereign III trades hard target damage and area of effect for extreme range and soft target killing capability. The 60" range on the indirect attacks along with the excellent accuracy means the Sovereign III has some very solid support power. Further, the threat range and hard target killing power of the direct fire missile racks give some extra protection if an enemy CAV or tank should sneak around the front line to engage.
  
• Blitz - Next we have the Blitz, giving up range for area of effect, and losing a little bit of specialization in hard vs soft targets to be able to hurt both- direct fire's a bit better versus hard, indirect's a bit better versus soft. The excellent area of effect is very tempting, but the range makes it much more likely the Blitz could find itself face to face with an enemy superiority CAV.
  
• Conqueror - The middle ground. Tremendous range and area of effect, good accuracy, but relatively poor ability to deal with hard targets. Still, at the price, range, and area of effect, this seems to be a very effective choice. The only thing that is giving the other two anything of an edge is that it doesn't rank as high on the coolness scale to me.
  

ESM/Recon CAVs

I tend to group these together because the only difference that really exists is the presence of an ECCM pod, something that could easily be altered on either of the Recon CAVs we've seen in CAV 1. Further, since part of Recon is usually not being seen, it seems foolish to assign that task to a large, hard to miss CAV. So the real issue becomes whether or not to field an ESM CAV- and if so, which one?

• Raptor - First things first: I think this is the best looking ESM CAV available. The lines of it just flat out appeal to me. It's cheap, it has an ECCM pod, I figure slap on a Chain Lock pod and this will do wonders- plus it can add in some indirect fire of its own.
  
• Talon - The price is a little steeper, the ECM is a little stronger, the speed is a little greater, and it focuses more on hard target killing than soft target killing. The problem with this is that it's really abysmal at both, and hard targets are usually tougher to deal with than soft ones due to more damage tracks and a tendency to hurt more when they fire back. While the Talon's got some good going for it, I think I'd rather upgrade the Raptor.
  

Special

Well, you have this as the catchall. There's two possibilities.

• Sultan - A jack of all trades, master of none sort of CAV. It doesn't have the hitting power or speed of a good superiority CAV, it doesn't have the reach of a support fire CAV, it doesn't have the top-notch electronics of an ESM CAV, it's not overly tough, and it costs a pretty penny. But, it can do a lot of things passably well, making it a good 'line filler' and second stringer. The fact it provides customizable indirect fire and good guns means there's always the temptation to slap on another 65 points and use it as a sort-of ESM with some good punch. Plus, it just looks cool.
  

Vehicles

For the most part vehicles remind me of a quote from another game. "It's good at making like a tank til a real one rolls onto the field." That about covers the role of vehicles in CAV 1. Whatever they do, there's probably a CAV that does it better. They're not as tough (for their role), they're not as powerful, they're not as all-terrain, but they're cheaper than a CAV. If you have a handful of points and need to fill a gap, they work well. At least as long as they don't have to weather a CAV's attentions.

• Banshee - Upon seeing it, the Banshee immediately brought up some old memories and that alone was enough to make me want to add these to the roster. There's not a lot of competition in the hover tank class, at least not in CAV 1, and it was pretty easy for me to justify a speedy, hard-target killer. It isn't a Mantis, but it'd support one well.
  
• Dingo - The Dingo is a sort-of soft target killing tank. It isn't the best soft target killer- it just happens to be one of two tanks that are good at doing that job at range. The Poltergeist is nearly its equal, but falls behind in speed and some measure of resiliency under fire. Plus, again, I think think the Dingo looks good. The Poltergeist, not as much.
  
• Wolverine - Somewhere between the Dingo and the Banshee, with the ability to do both jobs in a halfway decent manner, not particularly quick and not able to take on soft targets at great range- but tougher. And if I had to do both jobs with only 200 points, it's probably a good buy.
  
• Nomad - The Nomad is the ground scout for the whole force. It's quick, almost frighteningly so, and it can provide more punch than a Recon CAV could at half again the cost. Plus, there's just something about the design that makes me need to have this present, even if only as one or two models.
  
• Outlaw - When you get right down to it, this is arguably the most expendable vehicle for the force in terms of 'what do I drop for points?' The dual IFM capabilites are excellent to have, to be sure, but between the speed and the fact all the support fire CAVs can do the same job better while defending themselves, it's difficult for me to justify it. Of course, if I had four of these raining fire on a target, I might scrap all the above and declare this a must have. Hard to say at this point.
  

Aircraft

Gunships in the game tend to be fragile killers, surviving via speed and the hope there's a better target to return defensive fire on. At the same time, you have your airbone mechanized transport. These just want to get where they're going in one piece. If I was to pick a role for gunships in the force, I think it'd be with the other vehicles, eliminating enemy tanks, mechanized transport, or other things I need to intercept quickly yet don't want to pull a CAV off its current job for. Airborne infantry, meanwhile- well, what better way is there?

• Dragonfly - It's really cheap and is classified as a scout- yet the Dragonfly's got a decent gun strapped to it for killing hard targets. I wouldn't expect them to survive the battle, but for the points, it's a nice pickup.
  
• Kikyu - The soft target equivalent of the Dragonfly, fast and capable of eliminating its designated targets while being inexpensive.
  
• Ghast - Much like the Wolverine is a combination of the Banshee and the Dingo in capabilities and role, the Ghast is capable of doing the same things as the Kikyu and the Dragonfly- except the Ghast is able to do it better than either one, sacrificing a small amount of speed and upping the price a bit to be tougher and able to engage with a remarkable threat range.
  
• Kharl - It's the Starhawk VI in a gunship- I really want to field it, but it's extremely expensive. But it's good at what it does, too. So maybe if I'm in a high points game I'll have a couple in the air, though I can't help but feel the point cost is paying for a lot of toughening up that won't mean a thing if a Sabretooth gets it in range.
  
• Merlin - One of my two aircraft for infantry delivery, the Merlin is faster, bigger, and able to handle a lot more targets to support whoever's on board. Unfortunately it's also relatively expensive as a delivery mechanism. But at least I know that any problems that crop up along the way will be solved, either by elimination or outrunning them.
  
• Vindicator - The less expensive of the two. Much more the soft target killer, the the point that it could probably stand in for a Vanquisher. Between this and the Merlin I won't be transporting much infantry, but I doubt I would anyways.
  

So now that you've slogged through all of the above, and have an idea of what I'm looking at in terms of units...

 

Any opinions?

[EntilZha]

The Starhawk VI is my favorite superiority CAV, and I, too, use any excuse I can to get at least one in my taskforce. As for other Superiority CAV's I think you can't go wrong with the Dictator (60 or 70, though the 60 is cheaper). The Tiger is great against hard targets and is tough, but it doesn't have missiles. The Warlord and Assassin are good, reasonably priced Superiority CAVs, with the added benefit of the Rugged SA.

 

As for Support Fire CAV's you might consider the Regent. It's the fastest of all the support fire CAV's, and has excellent range and targeting ability.

 

ESM/Recon: Give me Khans any time. It's a speed burning, all-around good light CAV that's cheaper than the Raptor and the Talon. I also like the Panther, mostly because it's as tough as some Superiority CAV's.

 

Special: Mastodon - a big, tough guy who can fire directly or indirectly. Its Blaster SA can be a killer.

 

Aircraft: Though it's expensive, the Tsuiseki has a great combination of speed and killing power against hard targets.

[ReaperShaun]

Don't count out the Kharl because of its point cost. Remember that it can fire both missiles twice if it doesn't move. Two flights of them can unleash sixteen shots.

[Spartan6]

Don't count out the Kharl because of its point cost. Remember that it can fire both missiles twice if it doesn't move. Two flights of them can unleash sixteen shots.

 

Power gamer

[Wraithshadow]

The Starhawk VI is my favorite superiority CAV, and I, too, use any excuse I can to get at least one in my taskforce. As for other Superiority CAV's I think you can't go wrong with the Dictator (60 or 70, though the 60 is cheaper). The Tiger is great against hard targets and is tough, but it doesn't have missiles. The Warlord and Assassin are good, reasonably priced Superiority CAVs, with the added benefit of the Rugged SA.

 

As for Support Fire CAV's you might consider the Regent. It's the fastest of all the support fire CAV's, and has excellent range and targeting ability.

 

ESM/Recon: Give me Khans any time. It's a speed burning, all-around good light CAV that's cheaper than the Raptor and the Talon. I also like the Panther, mostly because it's as tough as some Superiority CAV's.

 

Special: Mastodon - a big, tough guy who can fire directly or indirectly. Its Blaster SA can be a killer.

 

Aircraft: Though it's expensive, the Tsuiseki has a great combination of speed and killing power against hard targets.

 

The big thing for me about discussing CAV 2 rules and SAs is the fact that SAs have been, per the updates, reworked again. We won't see the final SAs and who has what for a bit, so making any choices on CAV 2 SAs seems kind of like trying to assemble an army before the point totals have been decided on- things could end up different than you expect.

 

With that said, the Khan was intriguing yet it didn't really catch my attention because it can't really do anything except hide behind a big rock and hope it doesn't get shot. The model itself is great- but I think I'd rather try an all-Rifle Infantry army than hit the field with anything armed with LBGs.

 

The Mastodon I considered til I started thinking about the primary role of the CAV: support fire. In that role it just doesn't stack up- I can get other CAVs to attack from further away, get larger AoEs, similar targeting, and equal or better bonuses on the damage. The Mastodon's big advantage is that it has a direct fire shot capable of doing tremendous damage- but then you're look at it as compared to superiority CAVs. Comparatively, I'd much rather have a Mantis or put the points into a Starhawk VI.

 

The Regent is interesting for its speed- but I'm not really worried about speed for support fire units- range more than makes up for it. As far as threat range goes, the Sovereign III and the Conqueror both can exceed the Regent's threat range, and for less points. The Regent has a bit more punch but not enough to really justify it. If overall speed does become a factor (such as designing a hit-and-run style force) that might be more of an issue, but for now I'm happy with the choices I've narrowed it down to.

 

The Tsuiseki I considered along with the Khan- but for speed and hitting power, there's cheaper options. Like the Dragonfly. For less points I can put two Dragonflies in the air, they'll be faster, and they'll combine for the same anti-hard hitting power as a Tsuiseki. If I'm looking for maximum punch in a single package, then the Tsuiseki might be more viable than two Dragonflies- but I have a lot more trouble scraping up points. The Dragonflies seem like a cheaper platform.

[Mchandler]

hello, is anyone home????

 

my this sections been quiet for awhile...

 

I am looking at forming up a Merc company (currently do Ritterlich) because of the versitility and the ability to field units from other factions in one cohesive unit.

 

currently CAV wise i have

 

2 rhinos

2 Specters

2 pumas

1 tiger

1 dictator

 

any input on units to build it up into a nice combined arms force???

[ReaperShaun]

Since it is independant, just get whatever aircraft, tanks, transports, and other supporting units suit your play style.

[vejlin]

But remember only 25% of the points can be faction specific. So if you want to bring your Tiger (302 points) you can only do it in battles of 1208 points or more, and it means you'll not be bringing any more faction specific models in such a battle.

 

The way I'm seeing it Mercs will chose the "as many specialist sections as you want" doctrine over the "bring faction models" in games of most sizes because of the 25% limit.

[Mchandler]

ok thanks for the information on building a company....

[Sergeant_Crunch]

With independents it's wide open. The best place to start is what is your style of play. Do you like to hang back and take pot shots at targets or run up and get up in your opponent's face? Analyze how you play and pick the models that support that while maintaining a balance of hard/soft units with capabilities to engage either.

[vejlin]

Still. For it to make any sense to chose the "bring faction cavs" doctrine you need to get faction specific CAVs from atleast 2 different factions (if you only get from one faction you might aswell play that faction instead). This means that it will usually only make sense in big games.

 

We deffinitely need to make atleast some "on the paper" armies with that particular doctrine before CAV2 is launched, I have a feeling that this SA is maybe too weak and that the 25% is too low.