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vongarr

Power level of factions

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The Reptus have all of their remaining models on the way, so worries about them being at a disadvantage due to a lack of model is fairly moot (plus, there was always the option to proxy).

 

The Necropolis might not have Clerics, but they have plenty of Mages that can be Healers using Life Transfer, and who needs Healers when your a Vampire and you can feed anyway, not to mention Necromantic Surges, they can heal too. The Necropolis don't need Clerics. It's funny you mention Lord Vandrian, as I've not heard much mention of him, and while I do like the looks of him I'm not sure how effective he would be as a Solos, if he was an Elite he would be worth every point you pay for him and then some.

 

I think any complaints about the Reven being broken are pre-mature, their book has only been out shortly, and we havn't had much time to get creative and counter all their new goodies. But i'll agree with you the the Bull Orc Fighters are point for point the best grunt in the game, but someone has to have the best grunt, and I don't begrudge the Reven for having it. The Archers are likewise a steal, mostly due to their Tough/1+Warcry ability (only available in a BUll Orc only army list, and a Core army list now) and their lack of Marksmen, which has kept their cost down, while pushing other factions archers costs up to an insane level (Ivy Crown, and Nefsokar Rangers for example). I can't comment on the Axe of Grauga, as my Reven book is not in my hands, I've heard complaints, but I've also heard what appears to be legitimate counter arguments.

 

The secret advantage to the Freelance army isn't so secret in my opinion, if you are a power gamer it is the choice for you, you can get combinations out of it that far exceed anything you can get out of a Faction (faction beeok or not).

 

The problem with the Reptus is not the unavailability of the models, it's that the choice of officers they have is somewhat sub-optimal. Look at what happens when they want to field a large'ish army... Choice of one captain (Chai-Uut - reasonable but not stellar), a good but costly warlord, and two sergeants of which one is unique (Ssathuss) and one (Audt) hardly worth the paper stock his card is printed on. Also, with Chai-Uut only 4-11/1 they can never field both a cleric and a melee elite in the same group without using Khong-To, and he's just too expensive much of the time.

As a result, Reptus armies all look fairly similar, since they don't have much choice available. And some of the choice doesn't exactly excite me, much as they have lovely sculpts (Longstrikers and Rangers spring to mind; either would have been fine with tough added, but as it is...).

 

 

Lord Vadrian is often the star of my Necropolis. He's rock-hard versus archers, and with a moderate magic weapon (+2 MAV for +30 points) he can take out mages, archers and lots else with impunity, due to First Strike and his ability to heal himself back up (he's a vampire, after all). People who have played aganst me before often fire every arrows at him right from the start, hoping for a lucky shot. Once, I had 5 marksmen (archers) hit 4 '10's out of their 10 shots and drop him off the bat, but more often he gets to demolish his worth in points on his own, and more if I can use him as a supporting flanker.

Of course, he was much better yet when I still thought I could give him Divine Favour :).

 

 

I don't begrudge the Reven their' best grunt' either, but I think they have a bit too many 'best' things, as least right now. Future army books will likely solve this, but at this point in time, they have the best list, I think.

Believe me, I *like* Reven/Orks (my favourite Shadowrun character was an Orc Fixer, and that says it all for those of you who know SR), but I also want to keep my opponents happy, who start to wonder why it seems that the Reven get Bloodlust for free on many of their models, on top of having generally very efficient melee attributes, a generous distribution of tough (even on their archers), and a wide selection of battleworthy officers.

 

 

All in all, I think that the balance issues are relatively minor though, especially compared to other miniatures games (and I don't mean just GW, either). Not to mention that Reaper has the best support of any game company I have worked with so far. I am glad every time I play Warlord, especially so when I demo it, that I get to play my own small part in spreading the Good Word.

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I've heard Reptus players repeatedly claim they are at a disadvantage when it comes to elite slots with their leaders (I even know who started that rumor too, but I'm not pointing fingers ::): ). I will now attempt, once and for all, to crush this rumor, as it keeps popping up and is detrimental to the concept of that army. To do so, I will now list every single Warlord and Captain who has 1 more elite slot than the standard (2 for warlords 1 for captains), and which faction they belong to. Get ready, this is a huge list:

 

Ashkrypt, Overlords

Andras, Overlords

 

That's it. One army has an advantage in elite slots. Just one out of the core rulebook (I don't have my Necro, Reven, or (Deathseeker deleted) expansion book in front of me at the moment, but I have scoured each faction in the core.

 

No matter what someone may tell you it's a fundamental design paradigm of Warlord, and not an innate disadvantage of the Reptus.

 

I now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion ::D:.

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I've heard Reptus players repeatedly claim they are at a disadvantage when it comes to elite slots with their leaders (I even know who started that rumor too, but I'm not pointing fingers ::): ). I will now attempt, once and for all, to crush this rumor, as it keeps popping up and is detrimental to the concept of that army. To do so, I will now list every single Warlord and Captain who has 1 more elite slot than the standard (2 for warlords 1 for captains), and which faction they belong to. Get ready, this is a huge list:

 

Ashkrypt, Overlords

Andras, Overlords

 

That's it. One army has an advantage in elite slots. Just one out of the core rulebook (I don't have my Necro, Reven, or (Deathseeker deleted) expansion book in front of me at the moment, but I have scoured each faction in the core.

 

No matter what someone may tell you it's a fundamental design paradigm of Warlord, and not an innate disadvantage of the Reptus.

 

I now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion ::D:.

 

Thank you for catching that Goldeneagle. No idea how I overlooked it, I know I realised that the design structure called for Captains to have 1 elite slot only.

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Lord Kentaur is a Captain with 2 Elite slots as well, but clearly these guys are few and far between, in addition there are a few Sergeant models that can carry Elites (Tariq and Ardice).

 

In all honesty very rarely can you field an Hero and Spellcaster in the same unit unless you your Hero (ie. Ardynn) or your Captain (ie. Sir Brannor) happens to possess spellcasting abilities.

 

It's a clear cut choice you usually have to make, do I want to the added punch of a hero, or do I want the ability to throw spells around. You can't have your cake and eat it as well, if you want the ability to do both you'll have to field 2 troops, one with each.

 

I don't feel the least bit sorry for Reptus players, they have a few 'best' things as well. 2 of the best heroes in the game, Ra'am, and Nai-Khanon, and the highest DV unit in the game, and an unbelievable Solo in Uru. Not to mention with the ability to take a ton of cheap 52 point Trolls they can have an initiative deck advantage nearly any time they desire. And don't get me started on how powerful Khong-To is, Toe-to-Toe Varaug is the only Warlord in the game who can really stand up to him. So I find it hard for the Reptus to point fingers at other factions 'best'.

 

At 44 points Audt is very comparable to several other 2 wound non-unique Sergeants (Corvus and Athak are both very similar and both very much in the same points bracket). In fact you should feel blessed with Audt, not every faction has a non-unique 2 wound Sergeant (Dwarves, Elves, Nefsokar, and Dark Spawn all lack this feature). Keep in mind him might have a slightly low MAV, but this appears to be a Reptus trait, and i'll take his MAV + his 2 attacks over a 3 MAV 1 attack sergeant any day.

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In the pure points vs. power scheme, Ra'am is easily the best value in the game and Nai'Kannon is a cuisinart of a hero that would give even Khong-to a run for his money. Reptus also have the HUGE advantage of being one of the few factions with "tough" breakers. I could complain that the Reven are allowed to field the trolls too, but with all their other toys in the faction book, I don't see this as a real problem. Looking at the breakdown on reapergames.com for the balance of power and the fighting companies in each prov., I would have to conclude the only time I hear about a faction being off balance is when the balance of factions played in an area is grossly out of balance.

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The problem with the Reptus is not the unavailability of the models, it's that the choice of officers they have is somewhat sub-optimal. Look at what happens when they want to field a large'ish army... Choice of one captain (Chai-Uut - reasonable but not stellar), a good but costly warlord, and two sergeants of which one is unique (Ssathuss) and one (Audt) hardly worth the paper stock his card is printed on. Also, with Chai-Uut only 4-11/1 they can never field both a cleric and a melee elite in the same group without using Khong-To, and he's just too expensive much of the time.

 

You think Khong-To is expensive , have a look at the Dwarves Warlord . :blink::wacko:

Yes if you want try the "teleport the hero" tactic , you have to have the ability to field both a cleric and melee hero in the same troop , but the way its is it limited and that just fine . ::P:

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In fact you should feel blessed with Audt, not every faction has a non-unique 2 wound Sergeant (Dwarves, Elves, Nefsokar, and Dark Spawn all lack this feature).

Hey, don't be leaving the Crusaders out of your list of underpriviledged one track sergeants! Sir Conlan is pretty unremarkable too!

 

Castlebuilder

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let me start by saying that I don't think the reptus to be underpowered. This having been said, I would still like some help in a few areas.

 

We only have 1 wizard. That means that I bring the same amount of magic to a 1000 point game and a 5000 point game. We have no level 3 cleric. This means no reeeeeeeeeallly cool spells (teleport). The archers are a bit too pricy (this is just my opinion though) For a few points more per model I could bring elves and really put out a smack down. And the snakes... they may have cool models but my snales consistantly get raped in close combat. Lastly the faction ability. It is hardly enough of an incentive to keep from going freelance. Heres how it essentially works. If you attack me and I live through it, the next turn i can give up my movement to take a swing at you without being in quite as much danger of getting hit back. Compared to "cross deaths river" or "bane" or "mercy" we reptus aint got nuttin'.

 

As far as bringing tons of cheap solos, every faction can do that.

 

reptus- trolls

reven- trollls

crusaders- lions

dwarves- bears

elves- centaurs

necros- banshee

nefsokar- (yes i know, this guy is really expensive, but can you sokar players complain? He rocks!!) the avatar

o lords- chevy

darkspawn- soultender

 

all of these models are cheap enough (except maybe the avatar) to stack the deck with.

 

I won't forget to mention our lizardy strengths. Trolls rock and Uru is even better. Khong-to can take any single model in melee combat. Our one mage is a bargain, Cp 7 lvl 3 for only 45 points. The cleric is a great bandager and we can bring as many as we want of her. Breakers kick butt. And our faction ability can only get better from here.

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I wish people would stop complaining that their particular faction is unloved , the old saying holds true - Rome wasn't built in a day ! ::o:

And the snakes... they may have cool models but my snales consistantly get raped in close combat.

Nagendra are very similar to Battle Nuns , do you hear Crusader people complaing about them . You can't all have supertroopers otherwise there would be no variety .

:lol: I laughed when people put centaurs , trolls and banshees in the same sentence as celestial lions and Thorvald . The price difference does not make them cheap models , just numerous availability . :lol::lol:

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I agree, Banshees and Centaurs are legitimate comparisons, but Thorvald, Celestial lions, and the Avatar are 2-3 times the cost, so you argument breaks down when you add in these.

 

Prior to the release of the faction books the following armies did not have a Level 3 Cleric:

 

Reptus

Darkspawn

Reven

Necropolis

Elves

Dwarves

Even the Crusaders don't have one unless you count the Engel

 

So once again your complaints about no level 3 clerics have no merit.

 

 

In addition, nearly every Mage in the game is unique at this point. In fact there are only a handful of non-unique mages in the game : Malek, Railor, Thuusia, Kevis, Lunk, and Ian.

 

And while Clerical or Wizardly Magic is the strong suite of a few factions, I think it is clear to say that this won't be the case with the Reptus. Not every faction can be the best at everything.

 

Don't complain about your archers, some of us have RAV 1 archers that cost us the same amount of points because of 'Ranger' (Crusaders and Nefsokar)

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I don't play Reptus, but I can say I want more minis. I love the sculpts.

 

As far as power goes. I think everyone is pretty equal. We played a game yesterday where it was the Darkspawn box vs. the Elves box.

The elven player has probably as many years of war gaming experience as the Darkspawn player has ben alive. And the Dark spawn player has played at that point about 4 games.

Now the elven player usually has archers out the yang, but he was playing the box so it was a fair fight.

Darkspawn almost ATE the elves.

It was absolutly up to the cards on that one.

Elven boy was able to kill/nutralize the caster before she could drop Another fire storm on the whole army.

 

It was beautiful.

The Darkspawn player had droped the fire storm then charged with his grunts. If he had gone again he could have dropped another storm then based those who were left and that would have been it.

 

Thats balance for you.

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Curse my typos (I'm probably legendary for them, and I'm sure it drives tons of people nuts; damn spell checkers getting me through 6 years of University while still keeping me a poor speller, and a crappy typer shame on me).

 

I have to agree, I was speaking specifically about faction abilitties, from the perspective of the individual army lists I think they are very very well balanced in comparison to each other.

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GoldenE,

 

It is I and you are completely correct. After having played with them a number of times now, I have had to apologize to you a few times for my comments related to the elites.

 

But, my other arguments that I made so far have still held very much true on the weaknesses of the reptus (still my favorite faction even with them).

 

1. The first weakness is one that I am sure was done on purpose as a game balancer. But, at times is a bit too much in my opinion. Every faction is going to have some positives and negatives as they relate to other factions. I understand that. But, one that has come up repeatedly is the Reptus average discipline of a 5. And not just the grunts. It comes into play all the time with Mercy, Shock, Scare, Empowered, etc... For being such tough warriors we run scared or get mercied at the drop of a hat.

 

2. Faction SA. we have SAs that take models from one person and give them to another. We have SAs that disables the ability to come back from the dead. We have SAs that bring people back from the dead instantly. We got SAs that even if you have the ability to disable tough, its still there. We have SAs that let elites deflect damage to others. We have SAs to do all sorts of major things... Then the reptus have... the ability to loot. Oh, and the other one... if this and if that and if the other thing, then we can get a bonus to our defense against the enemy's defense (I guess this would help against Varaug's axe but thats about it).

 

Let me say this, I DO like the +2 DV. Its not a question of that. Its a question of all the IF statements that have to be answered in order to get that +2. (only IF already in B2B, only IF on the offensive, only IF no movement, etc.. etc..). It would be nice to have some way of having that bonus when I am on the defensive instead of the offensive. or have it on the offensive even if I move.

 

Have I used the SA to my advantage. Of course I have tried. Has it made that much of a difference? Yes, but not anything compared to the other factions SAs have helped them. I don't know, I guess I just see that as maybe a special ability to be put on a specific data card. Not as a faction SA where it does not measure up to the others.

 

But, one last thing, before I get off my soapbox. Please take all of these comments in stride as I am really not trying to bash anything. I woof and moan with the best of them, but I still love my reptus and cant wait to see how their book affects things.

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