Emmel Eitch Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 That's great I like that rule of thumb idea. And if they are (subtracted Wood) elves with sure shot, then if they can see them at all, they have no modifiers? Is that correct? SD yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stubbdog Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 That's great I like that rule of thumb idea. And if they are (subtracted Wood) elves with sure shot, then if they can see them at all, they have no modifiers? Is that correct? SD yes This is where one of the few problems where playing with proxies can rear its head. Get someone who plays with a huge model (even if it fits on a regular base) for a grunt or the like, and then uses a tiny model for whatever is needed to be protected behind it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiritual_exorcist Posted January 31, 2006 Author Share Posted January 31, 2006 And yes, you have been playing this rule incorrectly. Glad to have this cleared up, thanks :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmel Eitch Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 That's great I like that rule of thumb idea. And if they are (subtracted Wood) elves with sure shot, then if they can see them at all, they have no modifiers? Is that correct? SD yes This is where one of the few problems where playing with proxies can rear its head. Get someone who plays with a huge model (even if it fits on a regular base) for a grunt or the like, and then uses a tiny model for whatever is needed to be protected behind it. proxies aren't strictly speaking tournament legal, if you have this problem come up ask your opponent to field minis that are the right size or find another opponent sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiritual_exorcist Posted January 31, 2006 Author Share Posted January 31, 2006 My biggest problem with the "if you can see it' you can shoot it type rule, is then why the size values on the cover table on page 66. While it is a decent rule of thumb, I think you really have to take model sizes and cover size values into account. And it doesn't work alot of times for certain models, proxies of not, so you have to be really careful to take into account certain special abilities (big and small for example) Lord Ironraven is big, yet there are alot of standard models that obscure him, yet given his special ability he should be towering over them enough that he can get shot at regardless of whether 'real life' LOS is available or not. Warlord has pretty decent LOS rules for taking into account the horizontal, but I think a paragraph or two more dealing with the vertical would have been nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmel Eitch Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 The "Hard Rule" for anything not specifically covered by the book is to use your own best judgement and if you and your opponent can't agree on the situation, roll a die to see who is right. This is my official ruling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiritual_exorcist Posted February 1, 2006 Author Share Posted February 1, 2006 Thanks for your advice, didn't mean to infer it wasn't a good rule of thumb (or push for a more detailed answer). I rarely play with anyone I can't easily and quickly resolve a questionable situation with, so it isn't really a huge issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brushmaster Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Thanks for your advice, didn't mean to infer it wasn't a good rule of thumb (or push for a more detailed answer). I rarely play with anyone I can't easily and quickly resolve a questionable situation with, so it isn't really a huge issue. What do you mean , quickly resolve anything ? We just quickly agree that your always wrong ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiritual_exorcist Posted February 2, 2006 Author Share Posted February 2, 2006 Thanks for your advice, didn't mean to infer it wasn't a good rule of thumb (or push for a more detailed answer). I rarely play with anyone I can't easily and quickly resolve a questionable situation with, so it isn't really a huge issue. What do you mean , quickly resolve anything ? We just quickly agree that your always wrong ! More than a couple of times I've been quite right or asked a question that changed the way we were playing the game (Arn't you glad I asked this particular question? Now all those bloody Bull Orcs need is a sliver to shoot me, even it I'll get cover from it.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiritual_exorcist Posted February 4, 2006 Author Share Posted February 4, 2006 Sorry to drendge this topic up again. The 2nd printing erratta states, under Model Size, that 'A Model with a larger base size value Blocks LOS even if they are only partially in the LOS corridor'. And models smaller than the target do not block or obstruct LOS. So I just want to confirm an example. If an Ivy Crown archer was firing at a Bull Orc, and a Goblin was in the LOS corridor the model archer have an unobstructed shot at the Bull Orc (unless there was no LOS corridor, in which the Archer could still shoot over the Bull Orc, but the Goblin would provide cover in this case; as per a recent thread that ruled that small models in front of larger ones provide a cover bous). If an Ivy Crown archer was firing at a Bull Orc, and another Bull Orc was in the LOS corridor the archer would still be able to fire, although the shot would be obstructed (no shot woulod be possible only if the LOS corridor was fully obstructed). If an Ivy Crown archer was firing at a Bull Orc, and an Ogre was in the LOS corridor no shot would be possible, even if the LOS corridor was only partially obstructed. Is this correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outkast Samurai Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 When I read this I grabbed up the rule book to check it over again and yes according to the rules if you have a larger base model in the LOS corridor then no shot is able to be taken. Sure Shot would still not allow you to take a shot either as if the corridor is blocked then even models with this SA cannot shoot. A model with Scrye Shot would be able to take the shot though. I think that this is what they intended so that there were advantages to keeping your larger based models in the LOS corridor. my 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brushmaster Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Thanks for your advice, didn't mean to infer it wasn't a good rule of thumb (or push for a more detailed answer). I rarely play with anyone I can't easily and quickly resolve a questionable situation with, so it isn't really a huge issue. What do you mean , quickly resolve anything ? We just quickly agree that your always wrong ! More than a couple of times I've been quite right or asked a question that changed the way we were playing the game (Arn't you glad I asked this particular question? Now all those bloody Bull Orcs need is a sliver to shoot me, even it I'll get cover from it.) Sure am ! Strike one for the Spiritual Exorcist! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiritual_exorcist Posted February 4, 2006 Author Share Posted February 4, 2006 Sure Shot would still not allow you to take a shot either as if the corridor is blocked then even models with this SA cannot shoot. This does seem to be the way it is worded, since sure shot in the erratta removes the 1mm LOS corridor and instead says that it ignores obstructions. But since a larger model automatically blocks rather than obstructs Sure Shot models are (as I read it) still affected. Not sure this is what was intended though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellsgate Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 More than a couple of times I've been quite right or asked a question that changed the way we were playing the game (Arn't you glad I asked this particular question? Now all those bloody Bull Orcs need is a sliver to shoot me, even it I'll get cover from it.)Don't we usally give Brushmaster credit for the change and still claim your wrong . Anyway well back to topic: sure shot should not be blocked in such a situation. you can not tell me that it would be easier to hit a model with 1/8 of its base sticking out from the side of a barn than it would be to hit a model with 1/3 of its base sticking out from behind a river troll for instance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiritual_exorcist Posted February 7, 2006 Author Share Posted February 7, 2006 What do you mean , quickly resolve anything ? We just quickly agree that your always wrong ! Don't we usally give Brushmaster credit for the change and still claim your wrong Glad you guys hold me in such high regard. Jerks :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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