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WWII micro or 10mm


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If it is worth it to me to us Warweb all depends on their shipping method. If for example they use UPS, then it's a no go. USPS airmail on the other (which is what GHQ uses) is the cheapest for me. The problem with ordering from outside the EU is that VAT and shipping plus assorted extra expenses combined amounts to more than the value of what I'm buying unless I order stuff worth 300+ US$. Which is way more than I have to spend.

 

Thanks for the tip though. I'll look into it

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I've been looking at rule sets and from reviews from different places I find "Battlefront:WW2" sounds most like what I'm looking for.

 

I've noticed a lot of confusion surrounding these rules, so I'll specifically tell you that I'm not talking about FOW produced by Battlefront, nor am I talking about Battleground.

It's Battlefront:WW2 produced by firy and fury.

 

Anyone on here tried these rules? My impression from TMP is that the rules are really good. I especially like that the focus is on infantry and artillery and NOT on armor. Also my local gaming club uses these rules which is a plus also.

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All I can say is that I am not a fan of of the Battlefront WWII rules. We found that although the say they are quick play they really are not. It depends on how much detail you are looking for in your rules set. For us Spearhead gave us the level of detail we wanted.

 

I did get my set of rules from Iron Ivan Games: Disposable Heroes. I'm really enjoying what I have read so far and looking forward to putting some of my skirmish miniatures through their paces with it.

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Hmm Spearhead also sounds interresting, but unless I've misunderstood it's supposed to be played with each player controling a division, whereas Battlefront is not recommended above Battalion.

 

Was it slow playing at battles within the recommended size or were you guys playing a huge battle. I don't really want small games taking forever. What primarily attracts me to this game is the reviews I've read at TMP and the "resolution" begin stands representing squads.

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Actually when they talk about division sized games in Spearhead you really have to understand the scale. The reality is that the basic manuever element is the battalion. For example here is the organization of a German Panzergrendier Battalion from a 1943 Panzer Division:

 

BN HQ - HQ stand in a sdfkz 251/1

 

3 Infantry Companies - Each consisting of 3 rifle stands and 3 sdkfz 251/1s

1 Hvy Weapons Company - 1 251/9 (sp 75mm gun), 1 pak 40 w/ tractor, 1 120mm Mtr stand w/ 251/1 OR 1 251/9

 

Typically there is only one battalion mounted in halftracks the other one gets trucks. So one of each plus regimental assets and you have a regiment. Its about a 5:1 reduction in assets, or what we used to refer to as Series 78. So in Spearhead a stand represents something closer to a platoon than a squad.

 

A Tank battalion from this division would have:

 

BN HQ - 1 Pzkfw IV

Recon - 1 Pzkfw III (J or M)

Recon - 1 SMG Motorcycle Stand

Flak - 1 20mm Mobelwagen

 

3 Tank Companies (Light) each with 2 Pzkfw IIIMs and 1 Pzkfw IIIN

1 Tank Company (Medium) 3 Pzkfw IV F-2s or G OR H

 

So you can see that putting a division together in Spearhead doesn't really take that many stands or vehicles. In fact as your infantry and guns are all mounted on consistant sized stands you can really use any of the WWII rule systems except for some of the true 1:1 skirmish games.

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Mmmm not sure I actually said that it was faster. However, the reality is that Spearhead is a much faster game than Battlefront. Spearhead abstracts more than Battlefront does and hence plays much faster. The other reason we play Spearhead is because we can go 6-7 months without playing a game and still have the game play down in about 20 minutes. Battlefront has a much higher learning curve.

 

I look at a couple of different pieces when I look at a set of rules now. Command and Control is the first piece and I really like how Spearhead handles this. It does, however, require a map of the battlefield for each player. Orders and directions of movement are indicated on the map and a player cannot deviate from his orders unless he passes an order check. Because of this the Soviets have a hard time changing their orders while the Germans and Americans can change their axis of advance almost at will. It does a good job of showing the differences in both leadership and the ability to transmitt orders. I'm also looking for something fast that does not bog down in small detail. I know longer care where on the front of a tank I hit, just that I hit it and my gun was capable of penetrating. I don't care that I hit the upper right glacias which is set at a 45 degree angle and I struck it from 45 degrees off center (if you like this let me introduce you to Tractics).

 

So I'm looking for the rules system to handle these details without intervention or to much additional dice rolling from me. Right now I'm looking at Disposable Heroes and I like what I have seen so far, a good 1:1 skirmish game that has enough detail to make it fun without dealing with enough charts to drive me crazy.

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Hmm I've now decided that I'll end up with a lot of different rule sets. Basing now seems the most difficult. I'm considering basing on 30mmx30mm bases, this seems to be compatible with most rule sets.

 

I'll probably be getting spearhead, since what I want is pretty close to what you say you look for in a game Heisler. So since you like spearhead it's worth a try.

 

How does rapid fire play? anyone here tried those rules?

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Found a UK distributor for "Heroics and ROS" minis. They diffinitely are of poor quality compared to GHQ and CinC, but 0,4 british pounds per vehicle and the emptyness of my wallet taken into consideration these are some minis I atleast need to sample to see if it's worth it. By comparison GHQ tank packs cost 6,25 UK pounds (5 tanks per blister IIRC), which means H&R costs less than a third.

 

About base sizes 1 inch square (25mmx25mm) was what I first thought of doing, but then I read on TMP that 1 1/4 inch was what most of the rule sets wanted.

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I have limited experience of WWII 6mm, but I have done some. Firstly, you should check out the 6mm_Miniatures Yahoo Group. Maksim runs this and there is a simply huge links database for both manufacturers and minis.

 

I use Heroics and Ros infantry, with GHQ armour. Heroics and Ros (http://www.heroicsandros.co.uk/ - oohhh, they have updated their web site).

 

The GHQ stuff is really nice, but they are very difficult to get hold of in Europe without ordering direct from the US. In the UK, there is a single distributer, and the impression is that they get a single bulk lot each year, and it runs out. GHQ also seem to have some shipping issues to distributers in Europe. That said, their stuff is some of the most detailed out there, and only C&C comes close. Their infantry, however, I am not so impressed with, as they are in very static poses. H&R infantry is good stuff, but I am informed that the new sculpts are far better than the older ones, and their infantry is great for the scale. Irregular, I am not impressed with. They are some of the cheapest, but I just dont like the quality of them.

 

As for rules sets, I own Modern Spearhead, and Fistful of TOWs for modern stuff. My WWII game of choice is Mein Panzer. This is a reasonably detailed set of rules and it has a huge array of stats available. Their WWII suppliment covers 13 countries involved, and well over 1000 items of equipment. If you want more detailed, you could look at Panzer War, which is available to download for free. I also have Panzer Marsch, which lies somewhere in the middle of these two in terms of detail. Obviously, there are more abstract games, such as Command Decision (which I am waiting for the fourth edition which was supposed to be out this year but will probably be delayed), and Spearhead, which has a unique movement system to it.

 

I hope that this helps a bit. All the best.

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Is there a link somewhere on the H&R site I'm not finding or is it just 5 pictures a little company history and an address?

 

Only place I've found where I can conveniently buy H&R from is spirit games.

 

I'm considering making a two dimensional graph and plotting in the different rules systems. One axis representing a realism scale ranging from "beer and pretzels" to "wow I can actually hear the minis screaming in pain" and the other axis being the level of organizational detail ranging from "1:1 skirmish" to "theatre". I think this might actually help me understand the major differences between the games.

 

Will check out the 6mm yahoo group later. Thank you

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I totally understand your confusion. Previously, Heroics and Ros came under the banner of Navwar (their ship combat minis). I quick search for this leads to: http://www.navwar.freeserve.co.uk/catalogue.htm

 

Not many pictures there (but some: http://www.navwar.freeserve.co.uk/photos.htm), but there is an order form to download and fill out, and a list of what they actually produce... which is nice. Unfortunately, there are no pictures, so you will need to surf around a little to get some examples. I can only say that H&R represent a good quality to price ratio for me. I dont mind paying for something that is well made, and I like H&R WWII infantry. It may be worth speculatively ordering a couple of packs to check them out. I order direct from H&R for my stuff (but I dont have any pictures. Sorry).

 

Scotia do a huge range of WWII stuff, a lot of equipment you can only find from Scotia. Quality is OK, better than Irregular, not as detailed as GHQ. I use them primarily for trucks and non-combat stuff.

 

For rules, you really need to ask yourself what you are looking for in the game. Do you want smaller scale stuff, where you are counting the ammo of the units (Panzer Marsch) or are you interested in more abstraction? Are there any other games (fantasy, sci fi, etc) which are pitched at the right kind of level already?

 

One advantage of WWII wargaming is that the minis are easily used for loads of different rules sets. Usually, if you buy a Sci Fi rule set, it means buying a load more minis to go with the established background and force lists, but a Tiger is a Tiger under any WWII rules set. So, getting into a whole new game is just a question of a new book (or two). This means that, once you have one WWII game ready, you can get into a whole new game (and level of scale) very cheaply.

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