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Run'n'Gun question


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Can a model with only missile attacks still conduct a Run and Gun, provided it gives up the non-combat action to fire missiles? Or does a missile only model have to leave itself in the open (move to acquire LoS, then fire missiles, thereby using both non-combat actions)? I suppose the same applies to models with only free attacks like machine guns.

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yes you can sacrifice a non combat to declare missiles being fired and then fire them off during a run and gun movement.

 

On top of that, you are not penalized for the missiles when figuring up your Run and Gun modifiers.

 

example.

 

Mantis declares a run and gun, as well as a missile attack. Thus you would be firing two main weapons and two missiles. You would only subtract the -1 per main weapon, and not the missile.

 

Mad Pat

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While it's not explicitly stated in the rules, there is a line under the run-n-gun section that states missile attacks do not suffer the -1 per attack penalty for run-n-gun.

 

I'd infer from that it's possible for your two actions in a turn to be

 

1)Missile Non-Combat Action

2)Run-and-Gun with 0 Direct attacks and 2 missile attacks.

 

Nowhere in the run-n-gun section is it stated that you actually have to have a direct or indirect attack available in order to perform a run-n-gun.

 

Now, as regards the "free attacks" like flamers and machine guns, the Machine Gun SA clearly states it can be used during a run-n-gun, and then we're back to run-n-gun not actually requiring a direct or indirect attack to be used...

 

Of course, this is all based on open beta 1.5, and the final rules may be different.

 

Pat? Bryan? Michael?

 

Bueller?

 

Frye?

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While it's not explicitly stated in the rules, there is a line under the run-n-gun section that states missile attacks do not suffer the -1 per attack penalty for run-n-gun.

 

I'd infer from that it's possible for your two actions in a turn to be

 

1)Missile Non-Combat Action

2)Run-and-Gun with 0 Direct attacks and 2 missile attacks.

 

Nowhere in the run-n-gun section is it stated that you actually have to have a direct or indirect attack available in order to perform a run-n-gun.

 

Now, as regards the "free attacks" like flamers and machine guns, the Machine Gun SA clearly states it can be used during a run-n-gun, and then we're back to run-n-gun not actually requiring a direct or indirect attack to be used...

 

Of course, this is all based on open beta 1.5, and the final rules may be different.

 

Pat? Bryan? Michael?

 

Bueller?

 

Frye?

 

That would certainly make missle units much more powerful.

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And to further Pat's example, since the Mantis has Wizzo, it can Run-N-Gun with all of its attacks with no run-n-gun penalties...

 

2 Missile Attacks at RAV2, and 2 Direct Attacks at base RAV 4. On the Move. My Favorite Adonese CAV...

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Basically what I was thinking was a certain Rach missile aircraft using terrain masking, declare run'n'gun to raise just enough to get LoS, Fire missiles, then drop back behind cover. Or run out to the side of the terrain, fire, and duck back behind cover. Just wanted to make sure it was a legit tactic.

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The very definition of what Run-n-gun is for.

 

Bear in mind that your target(s) will get to shoot back at the position during your movement at which you fired your weapons (I.e. the "high point" of the popup attack)

Ah, the ever-present downside to exposing yourself to be able to get a shot. Falls under the category of "nothing risked, nothing gained"

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wording for the free attacks MG, Flamer and such was clarified to allow them to take place along with missile attacks, thus they would be eligible.

 

The wording has also been added that will allow you to invoke a special action to fire off all your freebie attacks with out making any other type of direct attack. Soo if for some reason you just wanted to fire your machineguns and flamers off and not the main gun, you could just invoke a special action to do so.

 

But yes to use your example of your gunship, run and gun popup fire missles duck.

 

Mad Pat

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And to further Pat's example, since the Mantis has Wizzo, it can Run-N-Gun with all of its attacks with no run-n-gun penalties...

 

 

Is that true?

 

I didnt think you could do that since MA is a seperate action. One could RnG then fire missles but I dont think you can do that with just one action. If so wouldnt it be at -4 for each shot (without wizzo)

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And to further Pat's example, since the Mantis has Wizzo, it can Run-N-Gun with all of its attacks with no run-n-gun penalties...

 

 

Is that true?

 

I didnt think you could do that since MA is a seperate action. One could RnG then fire missles but I dont think you can do that with just one action. If so wouldnt it be at -4 for each shot (without wizzo)

 

Absolutely true. Here's How it works.

 

Non-Combat Action: Fire Missiles.

Combat Action: Run-n-gun with 2 direct attacks.

--Total Attacks: 2 Direct Attacks, 2 Missile Attacks.

 

Run-n-Gun Penalties only apply to the direct attacks for both the purpose of number of attacks. The text specifically says "The attacker suffers a -1 penalty to the attack roll for each direct attack. The Wizzo SA neutralizes up to 2 points of this penalty. The Cumulative Penalty is applied to all the model's attacks. This penalty does not apply to any Missile Attacks also being conducted").

 

Missile Attacks are specifically excluded from the effects of these penalties. In additon, the rules for missile attacks also state:

 

1:"Damage from Launch Missile NonCombat Actions used by models that will also be conducting some other form of Ranged Attack Combat Action(Direct Ranged Attack, Indirect Ranged Attack, Cover Fire, Run-and-Gun) takes effect at the same time as the damage from the other action". Thus, by definition, Missiles Fired by a model that will also be performing a run-n-gun resolve at the same time as the run-n-gun attacks.

 

2:"For all oher effects and attributes Missiles are not affected unles the description specifically includes Missile Attacks or the Launch Missiles Action."

 

So, the total penalty is -2 (for the 2 direct attacks being fired), but wizzo offsets those 2 points. Assuming the Mantis is undamaged. You get 2 direct attacks at RAV 4, and two missile attacks at RAV 2.

 

I think of it this way: The missile attacks were not actually fired as part of the run-n-gun action, but rather as a non-combat action that resolves at the same time as the run-n-gun.

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Right. I agree with all that you posted. However, what I am trying to say is that the MA is NOT part of the RnG. You would have to fire missles then RnG or RnG then fire missles.

Therefore on a RnG: if one were to RnG from behind cover to fire their DA they wouldnt be able to MA and move back into cover with the RnG.

They would have to RnG out from behind cover and then MA leaving themselves exposed for the remainder of the turn.

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The problem I have with that is the description of MAs as point-and-shoot fire-and-forget AI guided weapons designed for reduced involvement from the pilot or WSO. By this definition I infer that the missile could indeed be fired at the same time as the guns during a RnG becuase of the reduced involvement by the pilot/WSO. Hopefully the text in the final version is more clear regarding this.

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See Pat's posts (#'s 2 & 9) above. Missile attacks take place at the point during your turn at which your other attacks are resolved, Even if that point is during a run-n-gun.

 

If you don't do anything but fire missiles for your attacks, even they can be fired during the movement of a run-n-gun. Pat says that newer versions of the rules make this even clearer.

 

What's the point of having missiles that do thier own targeting and guidance if you can't fire them on the move?

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