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Pro or Master?


L337Dwarf
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I was talking to some people and they said that the Masters were good, but they wouldn't pay the extra .50 for them and that the Pros are no different from the Masters Series. Is this true?

Don't believe everything you hear. The Masters Series paints are without question superior paints. The dropper bottle alone is worth the extra 50 cents, since your paint isn't going to dry out nearly as quickly in dropper bottles.

 

If you're looking for a true expert on this subject, Vaitalla (who posted in this thread) is the one. Well, maybe you could ask Al Pare as well, but he doesn't post here. Anne (Vaitalla) worked extensively with Pro Paints, and is involved in the development and production of the Masters Paints.

 

If you hear someone saying something that contradicts Anne, that person is full of it.

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I've never run out of a bottle of paint. Ever.

 

If you buy pro-paints, they will become unusable (from drying up when you open them, due to the design of the container) long before you finish the jar.

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But the bottles of the Masters look so small! The Pros seem to have more for your dollar in their jars. Do the master bottles have just as much paint in them as Pros do?

 

No, the Pro Paints have more paint in them than the Master dropper bottles do. It really depends if you want to go for quantity or quality. If you're going to be painting massive quantities of minis very quickly to tabletop standards, then, I suppose, then the difference in cost might be appropriate.

 

It didn't sound like you'll be painting too many minis very quickly, so the MSPs will probably last longer.

 

Ron

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What Flynn said--if someone contradicts me on the subject of chemical/physical properties and the Master Series, they are full of something and it ain't fluffy bunnies. ::D: I'm the one who made this paint line (with Al's help for the first 54 colors!). I was asked to do it because Pro Paint was becoming a little obsolete in today's miniature painting market. Here's why:

 

1. Smoothness. More-advanced techniques like layering and glazing are far easier with a smoother paint. Pro Paints, bless their little hearts, are absolutely matte flat--but this also means that they're a little grainy, because the grain is what you need to eliminate all the shiny qualities that acrylics naturally possess. Though a great paint for the time they were created--in fact, ahead of their time, I think--Pros aren't as versatile technique-wise for today's painter.

 

2. Adhesion. Part of the reason Master Series is more expensive is that it has a much higher-quality base (the base paint before the pigment and other things are added), which means that it sticks better to the model. This higher-quality base is expensive and that is reflected in the price.

 

3. More Pigment. Master Series paints are extremely highly-pigmented--we've been known to push the limits of what the base can handle to the point where we have to remix with less pigment! Pigments are *expensive*. Using as much as we do, there are a couple of colors we actually lose money on because of the large amount of pigment in the paint. This cost has to be spread out across the rest of the line, so this also influences the increased price.

 

4. Master Series Paint contains flow improver and other additives which enhance the performance of the paint. These don't come with the base; you add them manually, so that also is an additional cost.

 

5. Dropper bottles are much more expensive than pot-shaped bottles, but that's the way the industry is going these days. Pots increased the grittiness of the paint over time because fragments of paint would dry in the lid and then flake into the paint. The large lid also meant more surface area for air to get in through, and thus paints that dried out faster over time. Droppers allow the precise measurement of paint for mixing and thinning and allow very little air to mix with the paint, for a longer-lasting paint overall.

 

I think I got everything...but yes, Master Series Paints are a *totally* different animal than Pros. We buy the base paint from a completely different company, use more pigment and totally different formulas, and add flow improver and other stuff that doesn't go into Pro Paint. Plus all Master Series Paints as of this year are personally tested by me for coverage, color and flatness before they go out the door, making the quality control much more comprehensive than it was with Pro Paints. Any further questions? ::):

 

--Anne

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Master Series paints taste better than Pro-Paints. The MSP metallics have the worst taste for all the paints in the MSP line. :blink:

 

They may taste bad, but the MSP metallics are the best out there for mini painting (I'm told by my hubby) because they have the smallest metal flake size (which makes them go on smooth) and they are non-toxic (safe for brush lickers). I know Anne is striving for the entire line to remain non-toxic, not an easy feat especially with primers (which is probably why you haven't seen a black brush on yet...).

 

debby ^_^

*who will be pointing others who want to know about the quality of Master Series to Anne's dissertation above...very well said Anne"

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They may taste bad, but the MSP metallics are the best out there for mini painting (I'm told by my hubby) because they have the smallest metal flake size (which makes them go on smooth) and they are non-toxic (safe for brush lickers). I know Anne is striving for the entire line to remain non-toxic, not an easy feat especially with primers (which is probably why you haven't seen a black brush on yet...).

 

debby ^_^

*who will be pointing others who want to know about the quality of Master Series to Anne's dissertation above...very well said Anne"

 

Yeah, I absolutely :wub: using the MSP Metallics. One of the things I really appreciate is that they do not seperate out on the palette like I have experienced with other Metallics when you thin them.

 

And I really appreciate how everything is non-toxic. It's particularly helpful when travelling with your paints by plane and those nice big NON-TOXIC, NON-FLAMMABLE words are on the label. Makes less of a hassle at security.

 

I'm keeping my fingers crossed Anne will be able to find something that will be non-toxic for a black brush-on primer.

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Heh. Dropper bottles may be the wave of the future, but I definitely don't find them convenient, easy to use, or a paint-saver. I end up wasting more paint with them because I overestimate how much paint I'll use. PLUS I have to re-thin every time I use it. No thanks. I dump all my paints (Reaper MSP and Vallejo combined) into clear glass 1oz bottles. I also pre-thin my paints (using equal parts distilled water/extender/flow improver) and wipe the threads fairly regularly.

 

One of these days I'm going to sell all my empty dropper bottles on Ebay...

 

Damon.

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How do the Masters Series stack up to brands like Games Workshop Paints?

 

(NOTE: I hope I'm not being a nuisance and acting like too much of a n00b. I just am trying to make an imformed decision to my paints.)

 

The only good thing about GW paints that I can think of is the ability to buy them from nearly anywhere. Besides there availability there isn't really much else going for them

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How do the Masters Series stack up to brands like Games Workshop Paints?

 

(NOTE: I hope I'm not being a nuisance and acting like too much of a n00b. I just am trying to make an imformed decision to my paints.)

Don't worry about it. You're looking for information in order to make a purchase, nothing to apologize for. Personally, I'd rather craft paints than GW paints. I'd go with the Pro Paints or MSPs over Citadel anyday. FTR, I use the MSPs myself, can't recommend them enough.

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How do the Masters Series stack up to brands like Games Workshop Paints?

 

(NOTE: I hope I'm not being a nuisance and acting like too much of a n00b. I just am trying to make an imformed decision to my paints.)

 

 

GW paint bottles are designed for one thing only...to dry up quickly so you will have to buy a new bottle...GW has always changed thier bottles for the worst not best...They use to have very good bottles with flip top lids...and soft plastic...which keeps the paint from drying up...but then they redigned to keep paint drying in the bottle.

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