Updates to Mercy in the Crusader book

[Gus Landt]

My apologies of this has already been discussed. I've search the forums without finding it though.

 

I recently started digging into the Crusader book, and have noticed two very significant changes to Mercy. They both seem to make Mercy MUCH more powerful against models with multiple damage tracks who take multiple points of damage on the turn Mercy is offered.

 

FIRST CHANGE:

Core Rulebook, 2nd printing, emphasis mine:

The enemy model rolls 1d10 and adds its current discipline value

Crusader faction Rulebook, emphasis mine:

The target model rolls 1d10 and adds its discipline value from its last damage track

This obviously makes it MUCH more likely, in SOME situations, to pull off a Mercy.

 

 

SECOND CHANGE:

Core Rulebook, 2nd printing, emphasis mine:

If the Crusader rolls equal to or higher than the enemy, then the enemy model does not take the damage and instead joins the Crusader troop for the remainder of the battle.

Crusader faction Rulebook, emphasis mine:

If the Crusader rolls equal to or higher than the target model, then the target model does not take any of the damage dealt by the troop from Close Combat attacks.

How the core rulebook is written, and how I have always seen Mercy played, is that if you can take down a big guy in one turn and offer him Mercy, you get him on his last damage track. How the Faction book is specifically worded, you'd get that big guy as if he hadn't taken any close combat damage that turn!

[wildbill]

You know, honestly, I hadn't noticed the part about the discipline checks. I did notice the part about getting the model back unharmed. That was the way I always felt it should have been from when I first started playing Warlord. And I'm a Dwarf player!! Why would you bother offering Mercy to a big guy when he is now Wuss-man on his last damage track? That's lame! Of course, one more attack on your side couldn't hurt I guess...

 

Anyways, our local Crusader players were quite stokedwhen they saw that change.

 

Wild Bill

[Stubbdog]

I think that the wording on the first part might just not be thorough enough. That could be read as the last damage track before the attack started, or literaly the last damage track.

[wildbill]

I would have to reread the entire section again, but we've always played it as whatever damage track the model started the combat with. Everything is supposed to happen simultaneously, so it seemed like a logical solution. I guess that could be considered a house rule...

 

Wild Bill

[Ranzadule]

It could be that a "Questions About the Crusader Book" thread is in order. I have a couple as well.

[Stubbdog]

starting with the verification that indeed no damage done by the entire attacking troop would take affect to the mercied unit.

[Lawgiver]

I would have to reread the entire section again, but we've always played it as whatever damage track the model started the combat with. Everything is supposed to happen simultaneously, so it seemed like a logical solution. I guess that could be considered a house rule...

But it doesn't make sense if I hold my sword to your throat and ask you to beg for mercy while my lackeys are stabbing you in the process. It's more logical for a unit to beat the baddie to a pulp and then offer them mercy once they are clearly beaten.

[Sarec]

I'm not sure which way Reaper is going to rule on this but one thing to keep in mind, because this is a game (and a fantasy game at that), it doesn't always have to sound or be logical.

[Naterstein]

I am pretty sure they are meant to mean the same thing.

 

You get a model sufficiently damaged to the point where you can offer mercy. If you succeed, u get that model as is meaning on the last track. I dont think you get him fully intact, doesnt make much sense why the model would be magically healed after not being killed.

[Gus Landt]

If they are meant to say the same thing, then they both say you get an undamaged model (or at least, not damaged that activation).

I don't see any way of reading "does not take any of the damage dealt by the troop" as "takes tons of damage except for one point".

 

Besides, the final piece in deciding this has GOT to be this line, also from Mercy, emphasis mine:

Additionally, since the enemy model is not being slain, wounded, or even stunned, Toughness (and Special Abilities similar as well as Spells or Equipment like it that rely on the Model being wounded, killed, or stunned to work) do not apply.

It says very clearly that anything requiring the wounding of a model to work, does not work, because the converted model is not wounded.

[airhead]

Say I'm the defender:

 

I get to use my Divine Favor to ignor the first damage, the rest beat me to a pulp and the captain offers me mercy. I fail the roll.

 

Now, I've not been damaged at all and still have a divine favor? and am fighting for the other guys (Crusaders).???

[Sarec]

I'm guessing, in interest of fair play, the divine favor would still have been used just like any other one time ability or spell at the time it occurs. Think of it as a card laid is a card played kinda thing. Also, the rule for mercy negates/supercedes the rule for the damage taken but would not negate/supercede the rule on another ability like divine favor, etc. (at least that's how I would look at it. good question.)

[Brushmaster]

Since all damage occurs at the same time , there was no point to the "Divine Favor" being used if there's enough damage and as it is equipment/upgrade , the model mercied would still have it . Reason because no actual damage occurs when Mercy is successful !

[Spike]

I would think declaring DF could possibly spare the model being taken beyond its last damage track, negating the Crusaders' ability to offer Mercy.

 

Not having my book handy, I can't recall if there are any stipulations on WHEN one declares ones DF, whether it is called after the first damage is done, or at the end of melee combat phase. Since a model cannot be "overkilled", I really suppose it does not matter though. Calling DF after melee combat would remove one damage, denying the Crusader the necessary final blow and leaving the model on its last damage track.

 

Also, since only one DF can exist per troop, and assuming that the favouring diety would no longer favour a turncoat, it does not make sense that DF would tranfer with a Mercied model.

 

Something official would be nice though.

[Brushmaster]

I don't know ? It say the Divine Favor ignores the first point of damage and since "no" actual damage has occured , then how can it be declared as being used to prevent damage .

 

Also, since only one DF can exist per troop, and assuming that the favouring diety would no longer favour a turncoat, it does not make sense that DF would tranfer with a Mercied model.

The writeup says nothing about a deity . I think it only refers to initial army build .