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Updates to Mercy in the Crusader book


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You know , its comment like the previus 2 that really give me the sh1t$ :grr: If you don't like the ruling , don't play or find a way to beat ! I can remember all the grumbling about the Crypt Legion when it first came about . Yes , its a powerful faction ability but it doesn't work against undead . If you go up against Crusader , why not keep a few grunts near that leader or multi tracked figure , or take a banner to improve your own discipline rating . This is NOT true life , its a fantasy game . Mercy still works the same for grunts as it always did and so how are you going to rule against "Healing Graces" , not allow it because you don't like it , since "IT" can only work on "tough" models ! <_< What's going to happen when the next faction book comes out with an ability that you don't like or doesn't follow "REAL" life ? :rolleyes:

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I'm sorry, but the rules as you have stated them are contradictory.

Whether or not they are contradictory, and whether or not they are fair, I think we can all agree they are (finally) perfectly clear. Either you get their fully healed Warlord, or they keep their barely alive Warlord. End of story.

 

Agreed as the rule is written in the faction book.

 

 

The only reason it is getting muddled up is because people are trying to write up scenarios of how this would work in real combat. That would be the fluff aspect, not the rules aspect. The rules are clear (emphasis mine)
Either A) the model joins the crusaders and the damage dealt is retroactively removed OR B) the model ... gets back up on its last damage track

If you need some fluff reason to explain/justify it, how about the process of conversion is a Divine one, and the Crusader God removes the recently received damage.

No, the only reason that it is getting muddled up is because the game has a clearly defined timing for close combat. And mercy either happens in one spot (after defensive strikes but before damage is dealt) or another (after damage is dealt) depending on the outcome. To keep the game mechanic, Mercy should happen at a particular time in the turn sequence. As it is written in the faction book, it makes no game sense. Fluff or no fluff.

 

I don't need any fluff reason for this. I want a game that is consistant.

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You know, brushmaster, I personally don't care whether you like what I have to say or not. I don't have a problem beating crusaders, as I proved last night in a tournament in a totally different state. I'm saying that if you want a balanced game, make it balanced. Don't pump up the humans like every other fantasy game out there.

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The referee has made a ruling and you dont like it so you have to suggest possible changes ? You still havent answered "Healing Graces" , cause under you definition , one shouldn't be allowed to "Mercy" anyone unless the have the tough SA . It's your right to complain and disagree but "there" is an "Official" ruling , live with it , you've obviously found a way to beat it , so where's the problem ?

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Ok, lets try and keep it civil guys. This forum is for exchange of opinions, not arguements.

 

That being said, some of you have expressed concerns about mercy. If anyone is running into problems where Mercy cannot be countered, or is "overpowered" then please, send me an email at [email protected], and describe the game situation(s), and results.

 

While on one hand we are not in the habit of just changing rules willy nilly (because it makes the game infinitely hard to play for people who don't read the forums), we also are not going to leave an unbalanced situation in the game that will cause people to not want to play the game anymore.

 

Now let me restress the first part, please make concerted efforts to be nice to each other. Warlord is a game, and game is supposed to bring people together to have a good time.

 

Thanks everyone

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I certainly hope that this isn't a vocal minority thing.

 

As a crusader player, I like the rule. I've played other crusader armies, and haven't considered it unbalanced or any more overpowering than things like... Bonesplitter, right, Nihilus?

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Well, after much consideration, I guess I can see where reaper is going with this. Basically, when a crusader hits someone, in the last few seconds of that individuals life (if they have not successfully made a defensive strike) the crusader talls them "If you join my cause, my gods will spare your life" then the discipline roll decides on a yes or no answer. If the answer is yes, the gods divinely heal the model for joining a rightgeous cause. I can live with that answer. Seeing as how darkspawn can heal their own models through their gods blessing them for killing others, i can see how this would work as well.

 

As for rascal's comment though, Bonesplitter is a "weapon" that costs points, just like the spear for the crusaders. Not an automatic "I get this for being a nice guy" rule. So it's not really the same, but, we do get inate warcry in a sublist and ridgerunner automatic in a main list, so I will back off of mercy.

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I certainly hope that this isn't a vocal minority thing.

 

Well, thats also something that we take into consideration. Which is why I ask people to play games and provide me with in game occurances, so that we here at the shop and our playtesters worldwide can then try to duplicate the "problem." If it comes up everytime and can't be beaten "reasonably", then we know we have to adjust from there.

 

The last thing that is going to happen though, is one person says "I don't like this or that about (x)" and based on one persons opinion, we make a change. Like I already stated, we will make the game right if there is an actual problem.

 

Thanks everyone for caring enough about the game to have an opinion on it. :)

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Although the book states that Mercy overrides Pain Cage, with the new sequence of events, how is this possible?

 

In the pinned thread, step one is resolution of all Close Combat, damage, and avoidance of damage is applicable.

 

Pain Cage would go into effect at this time, and the model would not have suffered the potentially fatal point of damage. It would not be stunned or dead-ish, it would be standing on its final track of damage.

 

So, does Mercy still trump Pain Cage?

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Although the book states that Mercy overrides Pain Cage, with the new sequence of events, how is this possible?

 

In the pinned thread, step one is resolution of all Close Combat, damage, and avoidance of damage is applicable.

 

Pain Cage would go into effect at this time, and the model would not have suffered the potentially fatal point of damage. It would not be stunned or dead-ish, it would be standing on its final track of damage.

 

So, does Mercy still trump Pain Cage?

I do believe everything in the pinned thread takes place on Close Combat Step G. The 'steps' detailed in the pinned thread are not additional steps of Close Combat, but just Emmel Eitch detailing the order that things happen during Mercy.

When the Mercy SA says "Mercy takes precedence over Pain Cage", that means Pain Cage does not go into effect when I declare I'm offering Mercy.

 

I swear some of you are former Magic The Gathering players! ::P:

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In the book, it says that mercy overrides paincage. No problem, but, what if the mercy is unsuccessful? Can the pain cage kick in after the fact?

 

If Mercy is unsuccessful, Pain Cage isn't needed because the model regains its last damage track from the unsuccessful Mercy.

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I certainly hope that this isn't a vocal minority thing.

 

Well, thats also something that we take into consideration. Which is why I ask people to play games and provide me with in game occurances, so that we here at the shop and our playtesters worldwide can then try to duplicate the "problem." If it comes up everytime and can't be beaten "reasonably", then we know we have to adjust from there.

 

The last thing that is going to happen though, is one person says "I don't like this or that about (x)" and based on one persons opinion, we make a change. Like I already stated, we will make the game right if there is an actual problem.

 

Thanks everyone for caring enough about the game to have an opinion on it. :)

 

You know, as much as I dislike the new version of Mercy, I must say I do still love Reaper for Emmel's post. I don't see GW paying any attention to player feedback.

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