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Updates to Mercy in the Crusader book


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Actually, one of my biggest concerns with the change is that Crusaders were already vulnerable to Mob based armies because their models were expensive so they were coming into most fights at a number disadvantage to begin with.

 

With this change, people are going to be less likely to field larger models and spend the points on buffing them up, meaning there will be even more models on the field to overrun the Crusaders.

 

The change in Mercy doesn't really impact the effect of the SA on grunts. It does radically change how it impacts the multiple track models however.

 

Fortunately, Faction Specific spells and equipment become un-usable once a model has been granted Mercy, so if you are going to load up your multi-track guys, do it with stuff from your faction book as soon as they come out.

Very well said !!!! :B): I hope people will read this carefully !

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I agree, this new change does not make the Crusaders unbeatable, but it will now take a very different build to combat them; and many generalist armies with a little of everything (one or two mid-level characters and a solo) will suffer much more harshly from the Crusader book rule of Mercy than they did previously.

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...it will now take a very different build to combat them...

Not really, you swarm them with skeletons and zombies just like before. Undead cannot be mercied.

 

Some armies seem to have natural enemies that they just don't work as well on. Necros cost the Crusaders by taking away fearless or cutting into thier DIS rolls. Undead cannot be Mercied.

 

Dwarves negate all the toughness of the Reven & Reptus.

 

Nefsokar ruin the Necros big spell casters.

 

Crusaders are hard for Elves to shoot with an 11 or 12 DV.

 

etc.

etc.

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Not really, you swarm them with skeletons and zombies just like before. Undead cannot be mercied.

 

That works..... if you have undead. I play reven. We mostly have a dis of 5. I have to roll a 10 most times to compete with the mercying model. Most crusaders players know what they are doing, they won't mercy with a grunt, they will do it with a leader that has a dis of 9. So, yes, it will take different builds to combat this ability. :grr:

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Not really, you swarm them with skeletons and zombies just like before. Undead cannot be mercied.

 

That works..... if you have undead. I play reven. We mostly have a dis of 5. I have to roll a 10 most times to compete with the mercying model. Most crusaders players know what they are doing, they won't mercy with a grunt, they will do it with a leader that has a dis of 9. So, yes, it will take different builds to combat this ability. :grr:

 

Maybe. I think Reven swarms would still be pretty good. Or standing off at range with your archers.

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'Sides, Mercy vs grunts is unchanged.

 

Correct, and I have no problem with my models changing sides, I think it is sort of neat. First, I always look at this from a tournament perspective, you dont get to know who your enemy is... this needs to be kept in mind.

I feel that is the crusaders think they can keep the mercied units at its previous damage track than that damage tracks DIS should be the one they are using for defence. This just rings an obvious tone with me... you want the 4 track model undamaged but it using its last damage track for defence.. that just seems like having your cake and eating it too.

I dont think win/lose ratio is a guarentee of ANYTHING... first, many people play and prolly dont post wins and loses, for many reasons. Second, it may be pure skill rather than faction power... I have won everything I have played crusaders. This makes me consider playing them and (except against ranz) see if I can show other players that they are good and powerful, you just need to use them right.

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The only thing that really needs to be considered is balance. That's what every gamer wants. If the general concensus is that mercy is cool, then OK. Even though some of us have problems with it, we don't make the game, we simply make our inputs and hope we get heard(which I think we do). On a note of balance (hopefully this won't start another riot), Emmel, I think that this wouldn't be a huge deal anymore if another faction had something similar. Now, I may be overstepping a little here, or just being silly, but maybe you all could consider giving the Overlords an "Enslave" ability. Something like the mercy rule, but maybe, when you get a slave, you have to keep him within 6" of at least 1 model or something(to keep the slave within his master's reach). This way not only the crusaders have something totally awesome, and seeing as how the overlords are slavers anyways, I think it fits the fluff. But that's just me talkin. :grr:

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The only thing that really needs to be considered is balance. That's what every gamer wants. If the general concensus is that mercy is cool, then OK. Even though some of us have problems with it, we don't make the game, we simply make our inputs and hope we get heard(which I think we do). On a note of balance (hopefully this won't start another riot), Emmel, I think that this wouldn't be a huge deal anymore if another faction had something similar. Now, I may be overstepping a little here, or just being silly, but maybe you all could consider giving the Overlords an "Enslave" ability. Something like the mercy rule, but maybe, when you get a slave, you have to keep him within 6" of at least 1 model or something(to keep the slave within his master's reach). This way not only the crusaders have something totally awesome, and seeing as how the overlords are slavers anyways, I think it fits the fluff. But that's just me talkin. :grr:

 

*shrug* I'm an Overlord player and I like them for their 'Roman' feel - Imperial, a strictly structured military organisation (and Black Legionaires soon, I hope!), and a feeling that their true blood makes them superior to other peoples. I'd much rather see them gain extra abilities relating to chain of command, discipline or support than more cheese. Reaper can do better than *more* Mercy-type cheese. Oh, and maybe an officer who can conceivably win from a grunt in a one-on-one without costing 100+ points :).

 

Another flavour of Overlords I can see a great future for is the type of forces that Europe had in the 17th century - think "The Three Musketeers", "The Count of Monte Cristo" or the movie "The Brotherhood of the Wolf". Even without firearms I am sure this could be quite flavourful.

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I have to say that the new mercy is a bit much. If you have to defend with your last damage track’s discipline that would then directly lead to you being on you last damage track. On the other hand beating the higher discipline, would reflect converting an enemy that is unhurt and sure of himself. In short I think that the mercy should have it one way or another but not both/neither. Well that’s my two cents worth.

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So... with this new ruling on the Mercy rule, how do you beat it?

 

My thought is to do exactly what I did before, as it changes nothing on my tactics versus crusaders. I just make sure I'm targeting the Crusader leader models with ranged attacks and magic prior to coming into b2b with them. Or to make sure when I'm dealing with models with a high DIS to use my grunts to mosh them with numbers whenever possible if range and magic don't work or aren't available. I think hold fireball, firestorm, and part, are all good spells but I gotta make sure my spellcasters have a high enough CP to get past te Crusader MD so I'd probably make sure I had greater empowerment on all my spellcasters. I personally believe there are ways around every ability and every faction in the game regardless which faction I'm playing at the time, I just gotta keep an open mind and be creative. This isn't to say sometimes my builds just aren't designed to combat certain situations but in most situations there's a work-around somewhere. Just my thoughts. *shrug*

 

Anyone else have something more specific to beat the crusader with the update to Mercy?

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Hit them hard and fast... they can only mercy once per turn so focus on eliminating a single troop then move to the next one. Though taking the leaders out at range is probable a good idea especially when allot of them are easier to hit then some of the grunts

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while i didn't think of the hospitalers healing offers, I consider one turn=one draw of the deck and one round=ocne though the entire deck.

so by taking out a whole unit you reduce the number of turns they get and as a direct result the chances to mercy

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