Lars Porsenna Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Well, I think they're realizing that alienating your customer base is bad, so as far as THAT is concerned, I think they've been getting better. And as far as losing customers everytime there is a price hike, I don't think we really have any good information on that. It very well could be the extra profit from the price hike more than outweighs the loss in customers. Recall that screeds on the internet about the "evil" GW is anecdotal, which is not singular for evidence... Damon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristof65 Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Well, I think they're realizing that alienating your customer base is bad, so as far as THAT is concerned, I think they've been getting better. And as far as losing customers everytime there is a price hike, I don't think we really have any good information on that. They have been getting better, as far as I can tell. My big point was that when they're alienating customers with other things - like arbitrary changes in army composition - that when a price hike comes along, those who've been questioning their involvement in the game for other reasons are likely to take it as the straw that broke the camel's back. EDIT: Edited my post, because a google search result that led me back to the Reaper board, somehow screwed up my display settings and I thought a really old post was a response to my comment about the price hikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erion Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 I don't think GW is evil. I think they're a company founded by gamers that has long since lost touch with it customer base. I think that if they took corrective steps a good number of the so-called "alienated" customers would come back. One of my biggest beefs comes from the fact that 5th edition came before they finished releasing the rules for 4th edition, and re-booted the cycle of bringing the most popular codices in line with the new rules instead of completing the cycle from 4th edition. I'm also not a fan of their "everything at once" releases, where all the shiny stuff for an army comes out at once, and then there are no releases for several years. They'd get more money out of me if they released something for Tau or Eldar every couple of months instead of a once-every five-years splash release. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristof65 Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Erion - you and I are on the same page. I also get a little miffed with them when they change army lists in such a way as to invalidate a large portion of an already built army, such as they did with WFB and Lizardmen a couple editons back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanite Posted April 28, 2009 Author Share Posted April 28, 2009 With 40k and fantasy moving upmarket in terms of price, wouldn't this be a good time to re-introduce the Specialist Games as a lower-cost alternative? Car companies do this all the time, not that it's a good thing, but it happens (Honda Civic gets bigger, plushier, more expensive, Fit introduced as the lower-cost alternative below it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erion Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Erion - you and I are on the same page. I also get a little miffed with them when they change army lists in such a way as to invalidate a large portion of an already built army, such as they did with WFB and Lizardmen a couple editons back. For what it's worth, the "invalidating armies" practice is largely a thing of the past. The trend now seems to be making your army cost fewer points to field, but keeping the competitive tournament point levels at the same level or higher. One of my Buddies lost something like 500 points from his Orks tournament roster when the latest codex was released. It makes sense that they want to sell you the new stuff to fill the newly created gaps in your army, but it has the net effect that codices which have not been updated are over-costed vs. the recently updated books. I'm sure that my Wave Serpents and Devilfish will cost 30-50 points less when their respective books get re-written. With 40k and fantasy moving upmarket in terms of price, wouldn't this be a good time to re-introduce the Specialist Games as a lower-cost alternative? Car companies do this all the time, not that it's a good thing, but it happens (Honda Civic gets bigger, plushier, more expensive, Fit introduced as the lower-cost alternative below it). GW has already started doing this. They are re-branding the Lord of the Rings line as a mass battle game (called War of the Ring )instead of a skirmish-sized game. It's actually a pretty good rule set. Plays a LOT like Warmaster with Lord of the Rings flavors added. The Rohan Force I have done up is 1500 Points, and it comes out to about $350 for a LOT of models. Close to 100 Infantry and about 30 or 40 cavalry. That includes a handful of characters and metal command sections for each company. I don't have the list right here to reference. The plastics for most of the LOTR models work out currently to a little more than $1 for infantry and about $4 for cavalry, but the characters and metal command models are still pretty pricey. That's retail, of course. If you can get 20% off it's less than $0.85 each for infantry and about $3.35 for cavalry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRigger Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 I love the "WTF! Why are GW raising their prices? Reaper lowered theirs!!" posts all over the forums. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erion Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Yeah, I enjoyed that as well. I'm just pleased the new CAV stuff will be coming out with the lower price points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanite Posted April 28, 2009 Author Share Posted April 28, 2009 Doubleplus Indeed. Oh and did I mention I took my last step into the darkside and bought a Tau Empire Codex cheap? Yeah, it's all downhill from here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRigger Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 I've been buying a ton of Warlord games celts, and the Victrix and Perry napoleonics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erion Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Doubleplus Indeed. Oh and did I mention I took my last step into the darkside and bought a Tau Empire Codex cheap? Yeah, it's all downhill from here. Congratulations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sethohman Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Just glad I mostly finished my Witchhunters army a month ago or so. I will need a bit with the new guard codex, but not much beyond a box or 2 of Cadians. Hopefully find some old stock of the 20 man boxes when I have the cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Porsenna Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 One of my biggest beefs comes from the fact that 5th edition came before they finished releasing the rules for 4th edition, and re-booted the cycle of bringing the most popular codices in line with the new rules instead of completing the cycle from 4th edition. Granted, while I didn't actually play 4th ed (have the rulebook, never actually played save 3rd ed), from what I hear, 4ed was a bit of a mess... I'm also not a fan of their "everything at once" releases, where all the shiny stuff for an army comes out at once, and then there are no releases for several years. They'd get more money out of me if they released something for Tau or Eldar every couple of months instead of a once-every five-years splash release. And yet this is changing too... Damon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisler Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Well, I think they're realizing that alienating your customer base is bad, so as far as THAT is concerned, I think they've been getting better. And as far as losing customers everytime there is a price hike, I don't think we really have any good information on that. It very well could be the extra profit from the price hike more than outweighs the loss in customers. Recall that screeds on the internet about the "evil" GW is anecdotal, which is not singular for evidence... Damon. Although this is really must be considered anecdotal evidence because it only involves one store, my FLGS has gone back and looked at the GW price increases over the last 10 years and their affect on his business. Each time there is a price increase he loses 10-15% of his total GW sales (this is just sheer number of sales involving GW products). His profit tends to remain stable because of the price increase. He tends to gain about half of that back till the next price increase (which is pretty much a yearly event) and then the cycle repeats. So over the long haul he is definitely losing GW customers. That doesn't mean he has lost customers just that they are no longer buying GW product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Porsenna Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Point is though even if they end up losing 7% of the clientelle, once the tooling is paid off (i.e. the "fixed" cost of the product) its almost all pure gravy after that. While the volume profit may drop, the per-unit profit may go up, and that may be what they want. Like I said before, the plastic model hobby is getting hit with the price increases too. In my little niche, models that sed to be $24 last year are now $34. That's quite a price hike in one year! Damon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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