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Emmel Eitch

Preview of the "Lock Shields" Army SA

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Looking for an official discussion/explanation for the Gun SA vs shieldwall. Someone mentioned simplicity... I mentioned well sureshot is an exception so the elves still work... gunpowder traditionally blew the crap out of armor when it came about.. was curious if the Gun SA exception could be added?

 

In the testing there is no difference between Gun's and other ranged attacks.

 

Having worked extensively with black powder small arms and artillery pieces I can tell you that unless your at pretty well point blank a good heavy steel shield will deflect a ball round typical of the Gun's used in the warlord game.

 

What it will not deflect is the canon currently in play but that's why she has blow through which the shield wall is not immune to

 

Thats not to say the powers that be change their mind and adjust sheild wall for guns, but we'll have to wait till the Overlord book is out for the final call.

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Looking for an official discussion/explanation for the Gun SA vs shieldwall. Someone mentioned simplicity... I mentioned well sureshot is an exception so the elves still work... gunpowder traditionally blew the crap out of armor when it came about.. was curious if the Gun SA exception could be added?

 

In the testing there is no difference between Gun's and other ranged attacks.

 

Having worked extensively with black powder small arms and artillery pieces I can tell you that unless your at pretty well point blank a good heavy steel shield will deflect a ball round typical of the Gun's used in the warlord game.

 

What it will not deflect is the canon currently in play but that's why she has blow through which the shield wall is not immune to

 

Thats not to say the powers that be change their mind and adjust sheild wall for guns, but we'll have to wait till the Overlord book is out for the final call.

 

Hey! Get yer dang real world experience the heck out of my wargame!

 

And stop shooting people with black powder small arms! :lol:

 

PS

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Looking for an official discussion/explanation for the Gun SA vs shieldwall. Someone mentioned simplicity... I mentioned well sureshot is an exception so the elves still work... gunpowder traditionally blew the crap out of armor when it came about.. was curious if the Gun SA exception could be added?

 

Traditionally, maybe, but not historically. What gunpowder did was let you field a thousand guys with a rough steel tube, some black powder, and some bits of lead, for the cost of fielding a hundred guys with proper equipment (Full, painstakingly crafted steel armour, properly crafted weapons, and actual training in the use of those weapons). See, you didn't have to get a decent kill ratio because the numbers would be so heavilly in your favour. Even then gunners needed pike support for years to stop cavalry from simply running them down.... and the pikeman, seen as secondary by us modern types, was far more expensive than the gunner he was guarding.

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I have a question for the play testers and rule makers. It is really just a small thing, but why was it decided to leave scrye shot out of the list of things that can get through. I was under the impression that scrye shot was, if anything, more accurate than sure shot. Kind of like a seeking missile weapon.:rock:

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Yeah! Thorgram's Scrye Shot ability is his hawk! I'm pretty sure a hawk could figure out a way to swoop in past those pesky shields and kill the evil archers! :ph34r:

 

Wild Bill :blues:

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My guess is that it may have been an oversight.

 

Remember, when he posted the SA, he stated it was a preview rule and still in testing. Irregardless, we'll have to wait for Emmel to pop in and clarify this.

 

Until then, there is no sense in turning this into a huge debate about the merits of Scrye Shot vs Lock Shields. Let's just wait until Emmel gets a chance to see and answer, and also don't forget it's a long holiday weekend. He may not be on until early next week after the holiday, so let's give him some time to respond too ^_^

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Let's just wait until Emmel gets a chance to see and answer, and also don't forget it's a long holiday weekend. He may not be on until early next week after the holiday, so let's give him some time to respond too ^_^

 

 

What?!?! Reaper peeps should be above trivial things like holidays and time off!! Pffffttt...whatever!! :upside:^_^:lol::devil::wub::B):

 

Hmmmm...so, if it is still in testing, that means we can still have an influence on the final wording/ruling. Sweet. I'm thinking that Sure Shot needs to be removed. I mean, really. Those panzy Elves will be fine! :devil:

 

And, instead of Sure Shot, make the Dwarf Piercers the only archer unit in the game able to shoot through a shield wall. I mean, they DO fire crossbows and everything! And no, Merc crossbowmen don't count! They're stupid humans after all! :devil:

 

By the way, this is a totally unbiased opinion about the Dwarf Piercers. Really. Honestly. :lol:

 

What? Don't believe me? ::P:

 

Wild Bill :blues:

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I can vouch for Wild Bill, he's as unbiased as they come, anyway everybody knows dwarves need as much help as they can get. And no, dwarves are not greedy and self centered we just... hup, sorry, gotta go, just heard they struck gold on the north range. ::P:

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i think they should be immune to sure shot they allready have a hard time with elves why make the "shield wall" weak to elven fire. How many ways do the O lords really have to deal with ranged?

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i think they should be immune to sure shot they allready have a hard time with elves why make the "shield wall" weak to elven fire. How many ways do the O lords really have to deal with ranged?

 

A few more than the Reptus do. There is Bile to get in quick along with cavalry. They also have some rock hard units to take an arrow or two and keep moving at you. They have crossbowmen that can fire over other models. If you take away an army's main focus (such as the Elves archery mastery) It can cause a game unbalance. There is a good chance that Reaper looked at both sides and went with this direction to try.

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I think it is fantastic that Sure Shot allows you to break a sheild wall, there are plenty of examples of Factions that have an advantage over other factions, and I think this is a great example of that; it is something I really like about the game.

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Allowing Sure Shot to counter the Shield Wall makes absolute sense to me. No matter how disciplined and perfect a shield wall can be, there are going to be small gaps in the shell of the turtle. The very definition of Sure Shot states the Elves can find those little minute gaps, putting their arrows where no one else can.

 

If Sure Shot wasn't allowed, Shield Wall would absolutely NERF elven armies. This is just another example of Reaper making sure one Faction does not gain any gross superiority over another. Overlords have multiple ways of dealing with Ranged threats, trust me, even before their faction models come out. This does not put them at a disadvantage.

 

And after double checking the ruling, I just realized the Hill Giant's ranged attack, since it is AOE/1 is not stopped by the Shield Wall either. :devil: Phil can reach out and crunch someone.

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I can see what you guys are saying. I'm just thinking if one unit that's immune to elven ranged combat will "nerf" your army then it's time to rethink your battle plans. Also yes bile is a good way to deal with archers but x bow men are not they'll be dead before they get in range. I still concede the point i was just giving some food for thought. :;):

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but x bow men are not they'll be dead before they get in range. I still concede the point i was just giving some food for thought. :;):

 

No they won't! You send the cavalry at the archers first, and the elves have to do something about that, and that lets the Xbows get in range. And once that happens, no ranged unit in the game can trade shots with Overlord Crossbowmen. :grr:

 

PS

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