Jump to content

Thinning Paint and Layering


Epicenter
 Share

Recommended Posts

OOOOOO OOOOOO OOOOOO!!! Do I get to kick you too? I'll be there!!

--Anne--Good thing she's really more masochistic than sadistic, folks. :;):

 

Hey now,

My @$$ point is getting a lot more attention then I bargained for...However...Anne,

as a trade for tutor time, my @$$ point is all yours ::D:

 

Now relinquishing hijacked thread...back to your normally scheduled programming...

 

Thanks

AWhang

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 33
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Now relinquishing hijacked thread...back to your normally scheduled programming...

 

Too late, I think the thread's already been flown to France and they've made their demands to the negotiators.

 

Seriously, thanks to everyone for their replies. I suppose it's time to replace my brushes and try out some of these ideas with some W&N Series 7s.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Seriously, thanks to everyone for their replies. I suppose it's time to replace my brushes and try out some of these ideas with some W&N Series 7s.

 

Hi there, I'm no master of layering and you've already gotten great advice from the pros, but I just wanted to add two things.

 

As nice as W&N Series 7s are, they're not compulsory if beyond your price range. I taught myself how to get pretty good results from just ordinary white or golden nylon artist brushes. The important thing is proper brush care, keep the points straight, free from abuse, and they work well. Of course, if you end up painting in as much quantity as some of the more prolific, a Series 7 will last longer and be more cost-effective in the long run.

 

And this was mentioned in passing earlier, I don't know if you've seen this article or missed it. Let it Flow by Darin Hlavaz . It's free, doesn't require purchase of the Warlord rulebook (great book and painting guide though), and has pictures. This was a revelation to me the first time I read it.

 

Used to paint straight from the pot for basecoats, and thin aggressively into washes. Didn't figure out I could actually thin basecoats and work slowly down into layering consistency and then thinner into washes.

 

This is also another great and free guide to layering. Vallejo Acrylics' Guide

 

In the end, as they say, there's only so much reading and listening to /watching experts can do. Ya have to touch a brush somewhere along the line. Practice away, post a few pics of your figs, people here will then be able to tell what stage you're on and give you more advice that way. ::D:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Let it Flow article is great. However, I personally found my thinning to be a little less so than what is suggested. I am assuming that this comes down to 2 things, personal preference and that RMS are naturally thinner than Pro.

 

Overall though, I am happier with my RMS's than with any other paint I have used. Now if I could only get my skill up to the level of the paint I am using :p

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's a perspective you may have missed. I'm not a great painter, but that's mainly due to a chronic lack of patience and commitment to the craft. With time and effort I could be at least OK ;)

 

A LOT of miniature painting is your manual skill with the brush, and your understanding of the paint. These are PHYSICAL factors. They require training.

 

Forget the full tutorial and mess about with your paints until you get a result. It might be with thicker paint and only 2 or 3 layers, but at the end you'll have a better understanding of how your hand needs to move- how fast, in what direction, etc. Have you ever used an arc welder? Notice how it's all about knowing the timing, and knowing the movements. Once you know those you can refine your overall results.

 

Do you see what I mean here? Rather than sitting back and thinking about how you want to blend from colour A to colour B with exactly X number of layers, which is a very cerebral approach, you should start with thinking:

 

"the brush goes like THIS, the brush goes like THIS, the brush goes like THIS, the brush goes like THIS, the brush goes like THIS....." and then, that should become as much an observation as a thought. You're not painting, you're planing wood, you're sculpting clay, you're running a three-run-two-layer weld on carbon steel. It's a handicraft, not an art.

 

Did that make ANY sense at all? What I'm trying to say is that the manual technique and your personal understanding of the materials are not just a big factor in miniature painting; they're all there is. To that end, try many basic techniques as well as advanced techniques in order to better learn the responses of the materials to your movements.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You're not painting, you're planing wood, you're sculpting clay, you're running a three-run-two-layer weld on carbon steel. It's a handicraft, not an art.

 

Overall I agreed with a lot of what you said smokingwreckage, but am going to disagree with the part I quoted. I think it is an art. I also feel that those other things are arts as well. As with any art, some will be lucky and be naturally talented and it will come easy for them, and some won't. However, just because you have more trouble doing it doesn't mean you shouldn't try at all! Yes, brush control as it is a key thing. However, never fear asking a question as there is always someone that has an insight into what you are doing and can probably help or at least show you an alternate method.

 

I personally tackle painting in a "cerebral" way. I tend to read as many articles and ask a lot of questions prior to starting. I do this because I paint slowly, as in glaciers melt slowly. So if I were to just sit down and practice with no idea of where I was going, I could easily waste 7-20 hours :( However, that being said, sometimes there is no substitute for actually sitting down and learning from trial and error. Just I suggest doing it on a scrap mini and not your army general ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I should perhaps point out "that's what works for me" and I do also use a cerebral approach a little bit. As for the use of the word "art", mmmm, I was largely trying to differentiate between conception and execution, to re-emphasise my focus on the physical skill. I also add I have no talent with a brush as far as I know, so I had to build up the skill.

 

And yes, having someone show you a trick or technique and guide you in its use, in person, can be the best, fastest way to learn a skill. I should have included that.

 

So, you know, I think you're more expanding on it than disagreeing with it, where "it" refers to my intent. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just popping in to say that I haven't abandoned my own thread. Thanks for the continuing advice. I'll keep it in mind. Meanwhile, just waiting for my new W&N brushes to arrive (hey, it's not like needed both kidneys. God gave me two for a reason. I think of it as a surgically implanted loose change jar!) while I practice with some old ones.

 

Hopefully they'll arrive soon then I'll try this stuff out and mug ask someone for a digital camera to put up some pics for critiques.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<snip>(the store that carried RPPs decided not to stock RMS because RPPs didn't move at all)</snip>

Not to hijak an already multiple-hijacked thread, but Pro and Master Series are apples and Oranges. The Quoted statement is much like refusing to carry X-Boxes because nobody bought the Dreamcast - Or the Nokia N-Gage.

 

I'd also like to add that you can tell your retailer that Reaper has the best retailer return policy in the business - If they want to give MSP a shot, especially in light of their lackluster experiences with Pro Paint, they can contact Reaper (via e-mail: [email protected], Phone 940-484-6464) and we will exchange every single bottle of ProPaint for an even dollar amount of Master Series Paint. Serious - If they have, say, $299.99 in ProPaints, they can exchange that for $299.99 in Master Series Paints.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

p.s. tell me what brand of paints you use and I can probably set you up with ratios that work for a good general guideline--as tested by myself anyhoo. ::):

 

Anne, (and/or others)I've read the let it flow article.....as indicated above can you give the general thinning guidlines for MSP.

i.e. Base, washes, glazes, etc...

 

Including use of flow improver and the brush on sealer....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just a few points...

 

Yes, most of it is just going to be getting the feel of the paint and the tools, rather than any one standard technique or formula. (I use paint about twice as thick as Anne's.) My own work improved by leaps and bounds from two things: seeing other people paint, and experimenting until the paint did what I wanted it to. Developing brush control in this scale will take time--differs for everyone, but there's always a minimum of practice needed. If it doesn't look better six months from now, well, *then* you can get frustrated. ::P:

 

Series 7s are not necessary, though they *are* nice brushes. Isabey, Raphael, and Da Vinci all make excellent Kolinskys.

 

NMM gradient layering: Myself, I got the hang of it by first roughing out what colors to use and where, then refining the transitions. Really it's not much more than an elaboration of the old White Dwarf method--I have never been able to wet blend. Paint in solid swipes of your midtone, base, and shadow. (A solid foundation coat will need more than one layer.) Along the border where one color touches another, paint a swipe of the two, mixed roughly 50-50. You can then refine this endlessly: adding a deeper shadow and brighter highlight, glazing over the color borders to help the illusion of a blend, etc.

 

 

post-750-1158722291.jpg

 

--Jen

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@ Paintrix

When priming white, does I have to paint a dark undercoat (in brown or so ...) before painting the stripes?

I am asking, since sometimes I have the feeling, that when priming white and using directly over the white

primer light colours it does not look good. It looks better over a dark undercoat.

 

Thank you very much for your help

best wishes

Sash

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...