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Basic idea: every person brings with them a 1500 point army to the event. There would be a 3 tier series of events:

  • first tier 3 500 point games lasting 45 minutes each.
  • second tier 2 750 point games lasting 1 hour each.
  • last tier is the finals a single 1500 point game lasting 2 hours.

With each game, players may only choose playlist from models that are still alive after prior games.


example: 1st game I take 500 point list and only 3 models are left living afterwards. For the second game I would have the 1000 points worth of models that had not fought, plus the 3 remaining models to choose from for making my roster.


Same for game 3, only surviving models plus the last 500 points worth of unused models may be used for creating battle roster.


Spells cast during one game would not be available in other games (as they have been cast), unless they spent points to have more spells for that model for the just in case they survived and moved on...


So, then after the 3 500 pt games, X number of winners advance on to the next round. Which would be 2 750 point games. The rosters reset back to all available. With the same caveat. That only survivors from the first game may be picked to use in the second game.


Then after those 2nd tier games, then x number of winners advance to the finals. Would assume x=2 here but could be 4 for a third place winner depending on the number of players.


11-11:45 500 pt round one

15 break

15 setup

12:15-1 500 pt round two

15 break

15 setup

1:30-2:15 500 pt round three

1:15 lunch and break

15 setup

3:45-4:45 750 pt round one

15 break

15 setup

5:15-6:15 750 pt round two

15 break

15 setup

6:45-8:45 1500 point finals


All games would have to stop at the time that time runs out, whether or not they are finished with their turns. Only way to keep things on schedule and moving along.



  1. have to come up with something for those players who are ousted after the first tier, and then again after the second tier games to do to make it worth their traveling to the tourney.
  2. Makes people have to actually think about their armies, since they will have to use them in 500 points, 750 points, and 1500 points. Some people dont want to have to break up their power army lists.


  1. makes people think about each 500 points they have. and not just the overall 1500. They have to make their armies work in multiple sizes. I like the idea of making people adapt to a changing environment.

Other observations:

  • if it were a 2 day event then I would include a 1000 point semifinal round before the 1500 point finals.
  • If a model survives fight 1, it could be used in fight 2. It would be tough to say that any hits given to said model in game one would carry over so that it is wounded, yet still counts all of its points against the 500. I guess I would prefer that one liberty where surviving models are reset each fight (even if their spells dont).
  • Only because the Dwarf Warlord, would I really think about agreeing to a no warlords rule. I don't normally take my warlord, but if I decided to squeeze that into a 500 point group, well I cant see anything wrong with it. I would be the one making the choice to be severely outnumbered. And same if my opponent takes one and I dont. I rarely woof at that cause most of the time I see that as my advantage. Not all the time, but most.
  • As for opponents and tourney structure. I guess I had actually pictured it as different opponents with each fight, giving a player lots of different looks and games. But, I guess I could also see it as a best of 3 against the same enemy for each tier as well. Only difference is a little bit of paperwork, and good overseeing to keep someone from cheating.
  • The main idea behind this, is that people go and build these mega strong 1500 point armies. And that is all well and good, but say they were forced to only use a subset of that 1500 point army... Could they still win? And if they do it once, and have to change that subset to only use whats still alive, can they do it again?... Translation - don't put all your eggs in one basket cause you may not have that basket next game.

I just thought it would push some people that are used to ramming thru everyone with their power armies.


When time is called each round, any necessary toughness rolls are made. Those that fail, are DOOMED!! Those that pass are included in the available list to choose in the next army list.

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If you run this tournament, might I suggest you make it an invitational only one? I know several players that would get thoroughly confused by that format and not understand why they need multiple armies etc. If you stick to those of us Dwarven Gawds...uh...I mean, internet forum people :devil::lol: then chances are you'll have a core group that will understand the principle behind everything.


Wild Bill :blues:

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Hmm... 500 points of Razig's revenge is Razig plus about 8 grunts or adepts.


You may need to houserule for Razig, otherwise, one anti-Razig strategy (for the 500 point games) would be along the lines of:

1. Kill at least 60 points of Razig's crew.

2. Kill Razig.

3. The "hate sustains me" rule kicks in, but the Razig player is about 4 points short of bringing Razig back.

Razig is out of the game, being finally dead. And thus, since Razig is required for a warband, you can't form any later warbands that round, and the other player wins without actually playing.


If you don't houserule "no warlords required for 500 points", any Razig player might potentially be out of the entire competition after the very first game.

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Round 1: I take nine elven archers and annihilate any opponent who doesn't have 30" shooters.


Round 2: I take nine elven archers and annihilate any opponent who doesn't have 30" shooters.


Round 3: I take nine elven archers and annihilate any opponent who doen'st have 30" shooters.


Round 4: I take nine elven archers...


Round 5: ditto.


Round 6: Now my opponent might actually have enough points to make a game of it.



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Okay, to force players to adapt, you might consider a system lifted from Defiance (MJ12 games scifi skirmish). I'm not going to convert the numbers, they assume a 2000 point (or multiple of that) battle. Each player gets to make an army worth twice that (4000 points for a 2000 point value) as follows:


the 4000 point army must be a legal 4000 point army, consisting of four 500 point units and two 1000 point units. Each unit must be unique, even if the differences are minor.


Then, for a 2000 point battle, the players set up the table, choose their deployment side, then randomly draw three of the units and deploy them.


If one side is smaller (which can happen) the smaller side gets additional victory points as though it had already killed off the difference in enemy troops. For example, if a side is smaller than the enemy force by 500 points, it gets victory points awarded as though it had destroyed 500 points extra of the enemy, at game end.

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Anyone that chooses a warlord to take will have an interesting time indeed. Someone would have to know ahead of time their predictament before they chose to do so. Is it risky to choose Razig knowing that the first few games will be 500 points? Yes. But its still their choice to do it or not. Besides, Razig and 3-4 cannons is still very very formidable for anyone to face.




Given the appropriate amount of time (enough to finish a game versus just to get into b2b), there are several factions worth of grunt/adepts that I would pit against elven archers (or any other archers)


The recent discussions that have obviously had lots of discussion related to tourney games in which there was not enough time for melee baesd units to make a game of it.




But, I do appreciate the feedback from both of you. Any feedback and thoughts help.

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Anyone that chooses a warlord to take will have an interesting time indeed.

With the Razig rules as written, you must include Razig with the warband. You don't normally have the option to exclude him.


Unless you house-rule around that, you either have take Razig plus a few crew in round 1, phase 1, or you don't enter a Razig army or don't enter the tournament.

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You are right, I was just pointing out that you could field Razig and I believe 4 cannons (3 elite and 1 solo) and also a couple grunts for 500. And that would be a pretty tough thing to take on.


Or even Razig with 3 cannons and more troops to act like road blocks.


With the idea that Double E said that the Scurvy dog rule would be optional in tourney environments, I would say that is one tough crew.


Razig is a fairly tough cookie in his own right.


But, I see where you are coming from, Something would have to be done to try to ensure that the player would be able to play all of their battles in a said round.


But, I would not want to house rule the rules. Instead, maybe allow for the lenience the other direction, something like saying in the rounds where Razig is not available (if he should have perished in a previous battle), they would just be playing as freelance or something for the remaining battles...

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Not a bad Tournament format, I would seperate the Tiers of play; like have them on seperate days to help break that, "Why do I have seperate armies?" questions.



Anyone have ideas for a Beginners tournament. I was thinking a basic 750 game. Pairing up combatants Randomly and advancing in a pyramid form.

What are good prizes for newbie tournaments? Usually they will have the box set to start their army, perhaps $20 in blisters for a small tourny?

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Set your prizes based your expectations of the event.


Is it going to be a re-occurring event? How often? Weekly events shouldnt be giving out boxed sets.


Is it 5 people or 20 people, or 50 people? Again, 5 people probably shouldnt be giving out boxed sets, unless you have a good feeling that those 5 will turn into 20-25 for the next event because they spread the word of the good prizes.


Either way, you have to remember that the players will also be creating their expectations of you too. If you put up a box set, they will be happy, but they will also grow to expect that.


Starting players wont mind smaller prizes cause they are still learning. Experienced players tend to fall in two categories, those that play for the love of playing, and those that play for the want of winning big prizes.

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