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Gus Landt

1.2 Datacard Questions and Comments

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I don't have the experience with Warlord that many of you have so that's a grain of salt you'll want to take into consideration. That said:

 

Most of these changes present challanges that we can work at overcomming. A few extra points here, a couple knocked off there.. we can tweak our armies and get on with it.

 

I do think that the adept/grunt change w/o sublists to rectify that stings quite a bit. My friend plays Reptus and is already a little put out that there's such limited model selection. I know that for friendly games I'm definately not going to enforce the Adept status on his warriors (btw.. MAV 1 does not an adept make!) The Reptus (my take on this, at least) are a primarily defensive army. The lore fits it: they're defending their ancient society. Their stats (did) reflect that: high DV warriors, etc. Yes the nagendra have lower DV, but Reptus themselves had excellent DV. Now a Reptus player can have a core of high DV but the rest of his soldiers have low DV - kindof cuts out the "point" of their army.

 

I'm not sure why these changes were made, but I for one would like to see Reptus Warriors and similar newly adept models that don't have a faction book out to help sublist/un-adept them become grunts until such time as their faction book comes out. Reptus have a loooong wait, and they're already crippled enough as it is.

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I don't have the experience with Warlord that many of you have so that's a grain of salt you'll want to take into consideration. That said:

 

Most of these changes present challanges that we can work at overcomming. A few extra points here, a couple knocked off there.. we can tweak our armies and get on with it.

 

I do think that the adept/grunt change w/o sublists to rectify that stings quite a bit. My friend plays Reptus and is already a little put out that there's such limited model selection. I know that for friendly games I'm definately not going to enforce the Adept status on his warriors (btw.. MAV 1 does not an adept make!) The Reptus (my take on this, at least) are a primarily defensive army. The lore fits it: they're defending their ancient society. Their stats (did) reflect that: high DV warriors, etc. Yes the nagendra have lower DV, but Reptus themselves had excellent DV. Now a Reptus player can have a core of high DV but the rest of his soldiers have low DV - kindof cuts out the "point" of their army.

 

I'm not sure why these changes were made, but I for one would like to see Reptus Warriors and similar newly adept models that don't have a faction book out to help sublist/un-adept them become grunts until such time as their faction book comes out. Reptus have a loooong wait, and they're already crippled enough as it is.

The Reptus have it easy! You have 3 adepts and 3 grunts. My brother plays Darkspawn. They have 3 adepts and only one grunt! :down:

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Quick question - are the faction boxes going to be changed to reflect the changes you just made?

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I would rather see those models that would eventually become Adept, remain as Grunts until their book becomes available, then the players can have alternative models to field, and update the Data Cards as the book comes out.

I disagree. It's bad enough I have to throw 3 Broken Fodder in the trash. If they stayed as grunts until the faction book comes out, and someone wasn't aware that they would be changing to adepts, they could end up throwing a dozen or more models in the trash.

I stopped at 12 when I heard they were becoming adepts. If Reaper had not said anything, I would have picked up another dozen before the faction book.

I consider myself fairly lucky that so far I've only had to throw away 3 skeleton archers and 3 broken fodder. I'm sure there are others who've junked much more. :down:

 

I also disagree with the playability of the Darkspawn. The only real soldier change is that one troop (broken fodder) became grunts. I think they are still plenty viable as they are now, especially since they have the most powerful Army SA.

 

You were lucky Gus, I have over 25 reptus warriors. And use most of them in about 99% of my current army lists. I will probably finish painting them up and see if I might make a trade at the Asylum or something.

 

Double E, I humbly accept all of the rulings as they are. I just need a minute to vent and then all will be fine with me and life will go on and I will get over it. So, I apologize ahead of time for this post.

 

Obviously as a repti player, I would have hoped the MAV 1 warriors would have dodged the axe. I understand the reason behind changing the higher MAV high DV grunts in some of the other factions, but dont understand this change. I will accept it, but dont understand it. Especially when our DV9 units are actually more expensive. I'd have prefered to loes a DV point and join the dwarf still GRUNT warriors, whose DV10+deflect and MAV2 with bane I consider more powerful than the reptus NOW ADEPT warriors.

 

Basically, in general what this does to the game, is simply help speed it up across the board. With a limit on decent DV values, it means that your mid level MAV units will have a better chance of killing stuff, and your elite characters with their MA3, MAV5 warmaster will detsroy a much higher percentage of the models they swing at, simply because less models on the field will be allowed to have a decent defense value.

 

I guess that is one way to push us to buy the lower DV miniatures. I would never have bought the DV 9 Nagendra rangers, more because of their 32 cost than the DV9, but now that I cant field my warriors and since all my other choices are DV 9 units anyway, well, they atleast have 2 attacks. If its gonna die, itll go down swinging more times...

 

I am not going to get out of the game or sell off my reptus (my useable reptus anyway), but it does put a serious thought about setting them aside til more available options come out. Even tho I cant do that either as I am too addicted to this game and dont have the money to go buy a whole new faction right now.

 

 

With these major changes, I might suggest that each of the faction based threads be basically reset, since most of them are all filled with suggestions about play lists that will now be void.

 

Plus, would probably be nice to start with fresh new threads anyway... Maybe just start with Gus' post in each that outlines the data card changes, and then let the threads grow from there.

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The changes by and by large don't bother me to much. I can say that my games will allow Reptus Warriors as Grunts for now.

 

What changes got retracted? I know that Dwarf Piercers are still 18 pts and Reach instead of 20+ and Master Spearman. Anything else?

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Hold on! My Merc Crossbowmen have RAV 2?! We lost a point of RAV and got a one point increase in price. That can't be right. Can someone confirm that my Merc Crossbowmen are using nerf guns now. I know they added Volley, but how can we have lesser crossbows than every other crossbow troop. That's not fair, I say. Please double check. Thanks.

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Hack Hiss Spit Growl Moan Complain and all other manner of negative words. I foresee many more losses in my future. Especially against those confusticated dwarves, now that their warriors are actually worthwhile :grr: . I may be better off than most people, because I use a low warrior ratio (those warrior figures are frackin expensive), but this still sticks a big thorn in my bum.

 

@Emmel E- I know you don't want to go into the mechanics of the points blender, but why did the warriors get the switch? They don't fit the profile of MAV + DV = 13 that seemed to be the criteria before now.

 

Grumble Grumble Grumble.

 

 

 

Does this over-all lowering of DV (or at least the number of high DV models) have anything to do with fitting more game into to tournament play? I know there had been some complaint about the difficulty of concluding a tournament game in the given amount of time. Was the speeding up for that reason?

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Okay, I don't remember the specific rules for Volley, but the thought of a *crossbow* doing a *volley* just does not make sense. Historically, volley fire was done with bows, not crossbows! Crossbows were the original point and shoot weapons...

 

But sheesh, I got 8 outta 14 cards with changes, including the severely nerfed cannon. Getting gun aded to that makes sense, but that and a 53% point increase?

 

 

Nice things I noticed about the web site:

When you go to the data card page, the site picks up your default army and shows that list. No more click, scroll, click to get that. And the cards are now HTML tables, and can be copied and pasted into docs, so you don't need to save each one as an individual image.

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Just pointing out that despite many units becoming Adepts, these models are hardly useless if you have more than one unit of them. THey can of course be fielded in two units in games of 2000+, and it is very likely that when the faction books come out for these armies many of them will likely have sub-lists that they can be fielded as 'grunts' in.

 

It sucks to be sure, so much that I havn't been able to look at the new datacards yet, but it isn't the end of the world. Still, I believe Reaper has shot themselves in the foot with this one, they'll lose many of their fringe players, and many of those who are just getting started. In my opinion this sort of major change might as well be accompanied by a re-release of the rules set updated, clarified and re-organised; if such huge changes are being made in army composition Reaper might as well go all the way, otherwise they risk alienating their followers on two seperate occassions (as eventually the rules set/ rules book will need a re-tooling and updating anyway), Reaper might as well bite the bullet and make all the changes at once.

 

I'm sure the changes were not made lightly, and this may prove to ultimately give us a better game, but it is going to be mighty hard for alot of people to swallow.

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OK, I bit the bullet and looked.

 

I can't say I'm really bothered, at least not as much as I thought I might be. Alot of the changes are pretty minor, if you are complaining about a character going up or down 2 or 3 points I think you are nit-picking. The biggest changes are of course those to the points cost of Soldier models, which means you might end up being able to field a slightly larger or smaller army when it come to model count and when the small points changes all add up; and the change to various models status in terms of 'Adept' or 'Grunt'. The adept of grunt change is one we could all see coming from a mile away, if not now then in the faction book. Although I agree it is disappoint for some factions as it gives many of them a very limited set of models to field at the present time.

 

If I was a black lightning representative i'd be printing and copying these list to hand out to everyone interested for free. It would incur an expense I admit, but it might keep people interested (certainly doing so for a small group wouldn't be unreasonable, if you cater to alot larger one it might be prohibative).

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Yeah, the adept / grunt thing is sure to be addressed when sublists and faction books are released, but let this one rattle around in your brain for a bit: Darkspawn only have one grunt unit and their faction book is set for next year. So for 6+ months (and it's highly possible that we have to wait longer), DS has one grunt unit. This does not bode well for the strategy element in my game...

 

But on the bright side, wooooooo! Devourer!

 

EDIT: And I'll ask the same thing as (insert name here because I forgot who asked), will we be able to trade in our old data cards for new ones? I wanted to spend my points on a shirt, not updating my cards! >:O

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My only comment: With all of these changes, is Reaper going to make available a new Army Builder File (or some other equivalent tool) that will be updated with this massive amount of changes?

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The new Captain is kinda ok, but a CP 3 is almost not worth it. You have a 50/50 chance of healing someone. :wacko:

 

Actually it's 60/40 in favor of success. Unless I totalyl misunderstood how these rolls work.

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Hold on! My Merc Crossbowmen have RAV 2?! We lost a point of RAV and got a one point increase in price. That can't be right. Can someone confirm that my Merc Crossbowmen are using nerf guns now. I know they added Volley, but how can we have lesser crossbows than every other crossbow troop. That's not fair, I say. Please double check. Thanks.

 

Sorry, this was another example of me having had tooled around with a data card back when the data base we're getting the information from, was my private sandbox.

 

When I put in all the data cards that weren't already in the database, I missed a few things on the ones that were already in it.

 

anyway, its been fixed now.

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Grrrrrrrr.

 

Having just shelled out for the main book and the faction book and printed out a MASS of cards for the -many- minis that didn't come with them, finding out I need to mess around with printing the webpage (yeah, you really need a printable version that doesn't cut lots of the cards in half between pages) and updating all my cards does not make me happy.

 

However, the increased MAV on my Bull Orc Archers does, so I'll put down the pipe wrench and be calm for the moment, at least until I get a chance to compare all my old/new cards to see if you nerfed any of my favourite orcs.

 

One quiestion, If I send in swag points for army cards today, do I get old cards or new ones? And if I get old ones, when can I trade points for new ones?

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