Ceynuundra Aelvari - Elven High Command (1.2)

[Feanor]

Hey Darthiir,

Was this with your vaunted "Kill aysa" list?

I have not fought the undead since the book came out so what are we to do in the face of this monster?

any ideas anyone? ...Buhler?

[Emmel Eitch]

What do people think about the Elf Archer Warlord of DOOM? In the general discussion topic, E^2 has put the cost at the low 400s. He'll have both Scrye Shot and Blazer, making him plus a cadre of archers the closest thing to artillery we'll ever need. The only problem is this is easily around 1000 points without warrior screens.

 

I think that against my Crypt Legion horde enemy, it might be interesting. I'm not sure I'd win against his 4:1 troop advantage, but I might be able to demoralize sufficiently him sufficiently by dropping the pie plate into his deployment zone.

 

I need to reread how cover applies to Volley. I'm pretty sure we don't have to worry about it because of sure shot, but I need to double check.

 

I think that the bottom line on this guy will be: @ > 2000 points - very useful model. @ 2000 - borderline. @ < 1,500 forget bringing him. He is, therefore, appropriate to the title. Archer WLs of Doom shouldn't be cheap.

 

Well. . .thinking for a moment. . .a friend of a friend's brother's sister's cousin . . .let it slip. . . and . . . well. . .

 

first almost no one fields a Warlord below 1500 points. Sure there are a few who do, but for the most part the

Warlords don't take the field until the mandatory 1501 point limit, and from what I know of him I would take him in a heart beat at 1501. You would have to give him a little equipment, which would bring his point cost closer to 500, but you would only need to throw a few archers into his unit to have the same amount of ranged attacks.

 

A troop of Meridh and six warriors comes to 150 points. Throw a bunch of those in say minimum three and you've still got around 500 points to play with. Take a couple of Centaurs and maybe Arnise with some Seekers and a cleric and you've got a fairly decent army.

 

I'll tell you straight up that trying to beat the Crypt Legion Horde with an elf army is close to impossible, especially if he brings Aysa all pointed out. I fought the Legion in a tournament this past saturday and got stomped. My whole army was killed and I didn't even take out a third of his points. He had something like 26 Bindsouls and was bringing in 5 or 6 minions every round. You couldn't keep up with the models. I was serious out numbered.

 

If you ignore the minions and shoot the troops the minions will just mob your army one at a time. If you shoot the minions then it gives the Legion's warriors and breakers time to close to H2H, it's a lose-lose situation.

you know what you need is a model with Sure Shot to kill Aysa no matter where she hides.

[Feanor]

Do you mean scrye shot MLH?

[Darthiir]

Well. . .thinking for a moment. . .a friend of a friend's brother's sister's cousin . . .let it slip. . . and . . . well. . .

 

first almost no one fields a Warlord below 1500 points. Sure there are a few who do, but for the most part the

Warlords don't take the field until the mandatory 1501 point limit, and from what I know of him I would take him in a heart beat at 1501. You would have to give him a little equipment, which would bring his point cost closer to 500, but you would only need to throw a few archers into his unit to have the same amount of ranged attacks.

 

A troop of Meridh and six warriors comes to 150 points. Throw a bunch of those in say minimum three and you've still got around 500 points to play with. Take a couple of Centaurs and maybe Arnise with some Seekers and a cleric and you've got a fairly decent army.

 

I'll tell you straight up that trying to beat the Crypt Legion Horde with an elf army is close to impossible, especially if he brings Aysa all pointed out. I fought the Legion in a tournament this past saturday and got stomped. My whole army was killed and I didn't even take out a third of his points. He had something like 26 Bindsouls and was bringing in 5 or 6 minions every round. You couldn't keep up with the models. I was serious out numbered.

 

If you ignore the minions and shoot the troops the minions will just mob your army one at a time. If you shoot the minions then it gives the Legion's warriors and breakers time to close to H2H, it's a lose-lose situation.

you know what you need is a model with Sure Shot to kill Aysa no matter where she hides.

 

And when you finally get around to posting his awsomeness of doom in the data card section we just might have the weapon/chance. hint, hint, hint

[ecs05norway]

As I recall the rules wording, actually, Scrye Shot doesn't GRANT you line of sight, it lets you ignore the LACK of it.

 

Which can be an entirely different thing, depending on how the Blazer and Volley rules describe LOS.

[rcrosby]

you know what you need is a model with Sure Shot to kill Aysa no matter where she hides.

One point of damage per turn (maybe, you won't hit DV9+Deflect every turn) will be annoying but not fatal. Moandain will just have to use a Life Transfer to heal that one point of damage when it occurs. What makes Aysa deadly is pumping out an attack that is essentially #MA 6, MAV 7 which disintegrates one big enemy model each turn. A single Scrye Shot can't compare with that. Scrye Shot is incredibly overpriced because even though it may be an amazingly awesome attack, it still only amounts to one point of damage.

 

Rich

[Tsetsen Muur]

I can see a special rule on the bottom of the Ealwod's (that's E.A.W.O.D.) card (or a faction SA) saying "This model may combine scrye shot and volley", if the rules are normally mutually exclusive. It seems clearly the case that the intent is for Ealwod to be able to lead a group of archers in indirect volley fire, without LOS being an issue.

 

If it takes a special faction rule or card rule, I'm okay with that.

[Brushmaster]

(Of course it could also be argued the other way, and then I would assume that the rest of the archers would also only be able to use their "final attack" (#RA 1) in the volley led by the Scrye Shot/Blazer.)

But the other archers aren't using Scrye Shot, so there would be no reason to limit them. It's just the Blazer that needs to use it. Because of the Blazer, all the other archers are OK to shoot both their attacks without line of site.

I agree that we do need a clarification on this though. How, if at all, does Scrye Shot interact with Volley?

 

I must say though that if you cannot Scry Shot a volley, even for a single attack, then I really can't see this model being worth 415+ points.

Why do you think the Dwarven King is so complained about ?

[wildbill]

Scrye Shot is incredibly overpriced because even though it may be an amazingly awesome attack, it still only amounts to one point of damage.

 

Preach on, Brother Rich!!

 

One effective way to combat Aysa is with Ranger. This might involve you playing Freelance right now vs straight Elves (I don't know yet), but if you ranger out to the max, and then just bum rush everything across the field so you get into contact with Aysa (or at least REALLLLLLLY close), at best she only gets one round of spectral minions off, at worst 2. While still sucky, it could be a lot worse!!

 

I have a local Necro player that doesn't field Aysa in 1,000 point or less games. He says she is too expensive. That may be one way to defeat her: start playing smaller games again. Thus, she never hits the field to begin with.

 

Wild Bill

[Darthiir]

(Of course it could also be argued the other way, and then I would assume that the rest of the archers would also only be able to use their "final attack" (#RA 1) in the volley led by the Scrye Shot/Blazer.)

But the other archers aren't using Scrye Shot, so there would be no reason to limit them. It's just the Blazer that needs to use it. Because of the Blazer, all the other archers are OK to shoot both their attacks without line of site.

I agree that we do need a clarification on this though. How, if at all, does Scrye Shot interact with Volley?

 

I must say though that if you cannot Scry Shot a volley, even for a single attack, then I really can't see this model being worth 415+ points.

Why do you think the Dwarven King is so complained about ?

 

the difference between the king and the elves (other than height and hairyness) is that the king is the only model with a 30" range. the rest of his troops don't have the range to volley with him. . .yes he could scrye shot to shorter ranges but he would also need blazer to allow the other models to forgo LOS. the new EAWOD would have both, but even with a volley you are only going to do 1 point of damage (per model in the AOE).

[Emmel Eitch]

Do you mean scrye shot MLH?

I did indeed...

 

you know what you need is a model with Sure Shot to kill Aysa no matter where she hides.

One point of damage per turn (maybe, you won't hit DV9+Deflect every turn) will be annoying but not fatal. Moandain will just have to use a Life Transfer to heal that one point of damage when it occurs. What makes Aysa deadly is pumping out an attack that is essentially #MA 6, MAV 7 which disintegrates one big enemy model each turn. A single Scrye Shot can't compare with that. Scrye Shot is incredibly overpriced because even though it may be an amazingly awesome attack, it still only amounts to one point of damage.

 

Rich

 

well, what would I know

 

keep in mind though, a "theoretical model" that had 3 RAs and scrye shot, while not able to use scrye shot on all 3, could still use the other 2 attacks on minions. He can do this every turn, lowering her CP when he does. And if Moadain is "healing" her every turn, he isnt firestorming other things, which is something I personally would be much more concerned about. Its not just about balancing points, its also about preventing the enemy from taking the action he/she wants to take, because they need to respond to you.

 

I guess it really comes down to how you play, and the situation at hand.

[Sergei]

Scrye shot can be used with Blazer. That's the whole point of the "Helm of the Hawk" with the Crusaders.

[rcrosby]

Scrye shot can be used with Blazer. That's the whole point of the "Helm of the Hawk" with the Crusaders.

Which is silly because Acacia already has Blazer - what a waste! Or was the intent to allow Lady Devona, Valandil and Ian to lead 12" (RAV 0!) indirect volleys???

 

Rich

[Gus Landt]

Scrye shot can be used with Blazer. That's the whole point of the "Helm of the Hawk" with the Crusaders.

 

Sergei FTW!!!

[rcrosby]

keep in mind though, a "theoretical model" that had 3 RAs and scrye shot, while not able to use scrye shot on all 3, could still use the other 2 attacks on minions. He can do this every turn, lowering her CP when he does. And if Moadain is "healing" her every turn, he isnt firestorming other things, which is something I personally would be much more concerned about. Its not just about balancing points, its also about preventing the enemy from taking the action he/she wants to take, because they need to respond to you.

Moandain will just use the big spells on turns when the Scrye Shot misses. I don't think anyone takes more than about 2 big spells on their mages, filling out the rest with Ice Shards or Life Transfers if available. Like the Elven Warlord's 2 extra attacks, Moandain's Life Transfer is also causing damage, not just healing Aysa.

 

Convulsive Fear costs 15 points. Scrye Shot costs 150 points. Something is wrong.

 

Rich