Tsetsen Muur Posted August 6, 2006 Share Posted August 6, 2006 Dice. Okay, that and the double Nirondels. At ~75 points apiece, plus spells and equipment, he is a very large investment for a cleric. You have about 25% of your points in elites occuplying the same role. If you want to keep the high percentage of elites, perhaps using Lysette in Arnise's troop would be more effective. Personally, I'd drop the elite in Arnise's troop, and upgrade some warriors to Deathseekers or (new and improved) breakers. I'd also add a musician to at least the archer troop. They need to be able to run away. A similar build for me might look like this: Selwyn Nirondel, Bless x 4, LME 5 Archers Longthorn Warrior w/ Musician Arnise, Divine favor 2 Deathseekers 2 Breakers Longthorn Warrior Merdth 7 Warriors Centaur Centaur There are much more experienced elves out there than me, though, who's input I'd love to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildbill Posted August 6, 2006 Share Posted August 6, 2006 I have never played with Elves, but I have played against them numerous times. However, the gentleman that normally plays is taking a night class that is on our regularly scheduled playing night. We got a new Elf player recently, and I worked up this list just to try and help him out some. We have yet to play with it. He wanted a mage AND a cleric instead, so he changed it all around. But, this is what I did, and have no clue if it is effective or not: Selwyn + 5 Archers + Musician Meridh + 4 Death Seekers + Musician Meridh + 6 Warriors + Musician Meridh + 4 Vale Long Thorns + Musician Centaur Centaur Centaur That's 26 models and a total of 1,000 points even. The plan was to use the centaurs, the archers, and the leaders to shoot up the enemy as much as possible before they close across the board. The Warriors and the Death Seekers try and soak up as much hand-to-hand action as possible, with the Long Thorns supporting whomever is convenient (preferrably the Death Seekers!). The Centaurs can also whoop up in hand-to-hand if necessary, or they can join the rest of your archer types in shooting up the enemy while they are whittling away at your foot troops. Assuming the enemy does break through, you can plug a hole (or heaven forbid two!) with a centaur and then your leaders. Keep your archers back and mobile. That's why they have a musician: they can run away that much faster if necessary. It may be wise to dump the other three musicians and take a 6th archer, leaving you at 999 points. But, like I said, I haven't played the army, so I don't know how effective it is. Wild Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiritual_exorcist Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 OK , lets start by saying of all the Factions I own , I find the elves the most difficult to use (also its seem like every time I use them my suckky dice rolls comes out) . Here's my typical 1000 point list : Troop #1 Selwyn 6 Archers Niriodel with 4 Bless spells and LME Troop #2 Arnise with LMA and LMW 5 Warriors Niriodel with 3 Bandages and LME Troop #3 Meridh 4 Warriors Troop #4 Centaur Troop#5 Centaur any comments from experienced Elven players or is it my dice ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiritual_exorcist Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 OK , lets start by saying of all the Factions I own , I find the elves the most difficult to use (also its seem like every time I use them my suckky dice rolls comes out) . Here's my typical 1000 point list : Troop #1 Selwyn 6 Archers Niriodel with 4 Bless spells and LME Troop #2 Arnise with LMA and LMW 5 Warriors Niriodel with 3 Bandages and LME I've never seen a problem taking two clerics in a 1000 point force, clearly each is being used in a totaly different role in this case. But Niriodel is so bloody expensive due to the ranged attack he carries, it makes it difficult to justify him not firing along with the Archer unit, especially since he has marksmen. I'd probably honestly rather just shoot with Niriodel than use Bless and gain a +1 on some of the units attacks. More attacks are probably better, especially since Niriodel is has Sure Shot in an all Elven force just like any other Elf. And giving up Niriodel in troop 1 means you could add another 3 archers, which is 3 more ranged attacks with better RAV than he has. In addition, the +1 for LME is a bit difficult to decide on whether it is worthwhile. 80% chance of succes without it, or 90% chance with it...I'd stick with the 80%, it's a pretty decent chance, and Niriodel costs so much already. If you're set on an upgrade I'd switch th LME in troop 2 to a familiar instead, that way you even if you fail your 80% chance no spell is wasted. Lysette could really be quite a good addition if you were willing to sacrifice the Niriodel in Troop 1 and didn't want to add additional archers. I think she might be very effective if you were to give her 2-3 Scare spells and a couple of Ice shards (or possibly a Shockwave). I think alot of people feel the need to pack their Mages with really powerful and expensive spells, but Lysette is cheap enough and has such a great CP that even an investment of 30-50 points worth of spells (keeping her under 100 points) could make her impressive. At least Arnise got a DV upgrade, I was going to cry foul about you taking her, and then looked at the 1.2 datacard, still for the exact same points cost you could get another Selwyn, it is a tough call, although MAV 5 is certainly pretty impressive. I think the foundations of your army are alright, just needs a little twaeking. As we've discussed I think the Elves are a toiugh race to play, their low DVs make them fairly vulnerable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brushmaster Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 80% or 90% doesn't matter much when you're rolling "1"s . I was playing against Crypt Legion and not only was I rolling bad ( 6 shots at point blank with bless and I only managed to hit 2 Skeleton warriors) , the damned things kept getting back up 50% of the time . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsetsen Muur Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Today I face my horde Crypt Legion friend, for the first time since 1.2. Thinking of the following force: Selwyn Divine favor 4 Archers 2 Long Thorns 1 Breaker 1 Warrior, with musician Merdth 5 Warriors 1 Breaker Merdth 5 Warriors 1 Breaker Centaur 4 cards, 23 models Against this, I may be facing a horde as follows: Azaphan, Railor x 3 Each with 5 skeletal warriors, and 3 Breakers 4 cards, 36 models The strategy will be the expected. I'll set up as if I'm refusing a flank, all to one side or another. He'll run picket lanes straight down my face. I'll hope to cut open - or use a wooded area to get - a lane to escape. And then we have a long, drawn out affair of run and gun vs. crash and bash. I may have to sacrifice the centaur to pull forces away from the lanes. Any other thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonebasher Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 How many points is Arnise the half elf warrior Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildbill Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Today I face my horde Crypt Legion friend, for the first time since 1.2. Thinking of the following force: Selwyn Divine favor 4 Archers 2 Long Thorns 1 Breaker 1 Warrior, with musician Merdth 5 Warriors 1 Breaker Merdth 5 Warriors 1 Breaker Centaur 4 cards, 23 models Against this, I may be facing a horde as follows: Azaphan, Railor x 3 Each with 5 skeletal warriors, and 3 Breakers 4 cards, 36 models The strategy will be the expected. I'll set up as if I'm refusing a flank, all to one side or another. He'll run picket lanes straight down my face. I'll hope to cut open - or use a wooded area to get - a lane to escape. And then we have a long, drawn out affair of run and gun vs. crash and bash. I may have to sacrifice the centaur to pull forces away from the lanes. Any other thoughts? Earlier, I posted an army list that I think (stress think) may perform a little more like what you are wanting. It had 3 Centaurs, 3 Meridhs, and a Selwynn, along with 6 archers. That's 13 shooty types. There were plenty of hand-to-hand goodies as well. And it was 27 models! Wild Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsetsen Muur Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Sorry - we're playing 750 points. Should have made that plain. Similar List based around the same philosophy Selwyn LWA 4 Archers - musician Merdth 4 Warriors - musician 1 Breaker Merdth 4 Warriors - musician 2 Breakers Centaur x2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildbill Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Well, in that case, I guess my list would be a tad illegal, huh? If you don't tell him though, maybe he won't notice! I like your second build a lot more. You have 5 cards, thanks to 2 Centaurs. Those guys are tons better than before 1.2 upgrade. Wel, I think so anyways. You can shoot up stuff at a decent RAV 2 and Rng 24 and then when it hits the fan, they still have MAV 2 and DV 10. That's just as a good as my Dwarf Warriors!! I do wish that for 61 points you got Tough/2 instead of Tough/1, but hey, at least they only have one damage track!! That way when they do stand up, they are ready to kick butt again instead of being worthless. My opinion would be to sit tight, use your shooty types to whittle down as much as possible before they make it across the board, then use your warriors/breakers to engage. Keep your shooty types firing away into combat as long as possible. Keep the leaders back and only fill in the gaps in the line with the Centaurs first. Then, if necessary, charge in with the leaders. All the while your archers are still firing away. I'm pretty confident it can work out to your advantage that way. Wild Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsetsen Muur Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Given that I'm facing about 36 units, on a 4x4 table, I'll be hard pressed to get enough kills to pretend I'm a gun line. At best, I'll get 17 shots per turn for 3 turns = 51 shots. Pretending that all archers are RAV 3. I hit 50% of the time, 20 kills, with 4 standing back up. He'll have 20 units vs my 18. I believe I'd lose as a gunline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stubbdog Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 why the musicians? You already mov an average of 7 and you are playing defensive to boot. That could be more models if you get rid of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildbill Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 I didn't notice that before. You could dump all three musicians and get an extra archer. Those two extra shots could make a difference! Wild Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsetsen Muur Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 I included the musicians to match the WildBill build. On my builds for Elves, I typically give the Archer group a musician. A movement of 8" greatly increases the chance of the force being able to move far enough away and still have their combat action to shoot. The point is well taken, though. I may revise my list accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildbill Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 If you were to get rid of two musicians, does that open it up enough to give you another grunt model or two? Maybe take a Long Thorn or a Warriors and then Divine Favor on Selwynn or something. I don't know. I'm just kicking it around myself. Someone pointed out to me earlier that I might have had too many musicians as well, especially considering the fact I was essentially playing totally defensive. Wild Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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