Ceynuundra Aelvari - Elven High Command (1.2)

[Tsetsen Muur]

Okay, so I was stuck in another mind numbingly painful Staff Meeting and started doodling, and came up with a proposal for a new elven soldier and Sarge for the future Faction Book. I didn't bother working out points, but just came up with a rough concept.

Vale Foot Lancer
Affiliation		 Model	   Troop		 Base			Pts
Elves/Good		  Adept					 Standard	???
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#MA   #RA   Dmg   Mov   Dis   MAV   RAV   Rng   DV   MD
 1		  0	 6	 7	 2				9	11
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Special Abilities: Deflect, Mob, Piker, Raider, Reach, Tough/1, "Hold the Line"

 

They would have a dedicated Sergeant with the same single track of stats, with Mob/10 and troop 4-10/0.

 

Hold the Line: During its troop activation, if a Model with Hold the Line does not perform any Movement Actions, and sacrifices a Non-Combat Action, upon completion of the Troop's Activation (including resolution of Defensive Strikes), the Model gains a situational +2 bonus to DV until the Model's Troop is next activated. The Model loses the benefits of Hold the Line if it is forced to Move for any reason, for example Teleport, Part, Speed, etc between Activations. Defender Adjustment does not count as Movement. If a Model is currently Holding the Line when it is Activated, and does not Move, thus continuing to Hold the Line, the +2 bonus to DV remains in effect for Defensive Strikes if it Initiates Close Combat with an Enemy Model already in base to base contact with it. The Player must declare that the Model is Holding the Line and sacrifice their Non Combat Action prior to declaring Close Combat.

 

You could probably do something similar to this with Dwarves and give them a higher base DV, but I like the idea of an elite defensive Elven unit. It also fits in nicely with the standard play of the elven picket line defending the Archers.

Interesting -- the model can't CDG, attack, and maintain the bonus. I gnerally like the idea behind the model, but I'm not sure about "Mob" as a SA. I don't picture groups of 20 of these fighters running around. It would also limit the disadvantage we have against Cav. Heavy forces.

[Outkast Samurai]

I like the idea although I'd likely lower their movement to 5. A long spear and heavy shield are pretty encumbering to the lighter elves. Besides they'd be trained to stay still so moving just isn't in their natural

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Elven sofa spuds

[rcrosby]

With just the listed stats and Deflect, Reach and Tough/1, it is already up to 26 points, not counting Mob, Piker, Raider or Hold the Line. I don't see how Mob fits except as an excuse to be able to mix a bunch of them in the same troop with a bunch of archers. They really aren't a "Mob", however. "Hold the Line" would be a lot simpler as just an Invoke action - lasts until the troop's next Action Phase. These are going to be way too expensive unless one or more of these are dumped: Good at standing (hold the line), good at running away (high Dis & Raider), good vs cavalry (Piker), good vs First Strike (the only real benefit of Reach for such a Model).

 

My heavy revision would be to keep the stats but only have Deflect, Tough/1 and Hold the Line. Model them with some sort of hand weapon instead of a spear and call them an Elite Guard. This would have a points cost of 24 pts plus the cost of Hold the Line. And of course, make Hold the Line an Invoke action that lasts until their next Action Phase - a simpler game mechanic that emphasizes their defensive nature.

 

Rich

[Qwyksilver]

Mob doesn't necessarily have to be a huge gibbering hoarde. And the reason for giving them Mob is specifically so they can have a larger troop size, with their dedicated Sgt. It would be specifically so they could work in concert with Archers or another model type to protect them, and allow them to all move in concert. I don't envision 20 of these models either, given their likely cost, it would be prohibitive. Using them in a mixed unit is where they should be, but if they cannot act in concert with the models they are protecting, they become far less effective. Maybe drop the Sgt down to Mob/5. I would see 9 of these guys with their Sgt, standing fast protecting the 5 archers behind them.

 

The higher movement is because although they have a spear and shield, their armor is still average. Think of a Hoplite.

 

Giving them Raider and High Dis is for a specific reason, giving the player a tactical option:

If they have already been engaged, they can opt to hold the line and attack with the better DV, or break off and step back to continue protecting their Archers from other flanking attempts, but doing so at their base DV. It's a continuation of the run and shoot philosophy that works well for elves.

 

Piker is specifically to help against Cavalry, which is one of the biggest threats to Archers, and one of the designs of the Model. High Dis also helps here so if the model is out of cohesion, it can survive Shock. It would also fit with the fluff of the Model, Soldiers trained to stand in the face of a coming onslaught and through skill and will, not break.

 

Elite models cost a lot. It's just a fact of the game. If they cost 45 points or so, so be it. Cheap Cavalry cost 40 odd points too. Good Cavalry are in the 60's. Hold the line wouldn't necessarily be terribly expensive because you can counter it with spells, and you have to sacrifice all Movement and a Non Combat Action to do it.

 

I don't want it as an Invoke SA. Yes it is simpler, but doesn't fit with the penalties you would encounter in order to hold the line. Not moving, and sacrificing a non combat action isn't that complicated either.

 

If I was going to drop any SA, it would be Reach, which was only included because they do carry a spear. Raider would be the second choice, since their Dis is already pretty good. Giving them a different weapon doesn't work, since the standard counter to cavalry has always been the spear/pike/etc. Not to mention a thrusting weapon works better in a tight formation than something you need to swing.

[rgtriplec]

I would get rid of Raider, Reach and Tough that leaves you the four important SA's. Tough/1 is nice but it works 20% of the time. Raider is nice too but you only need 3's as it is. Reach is the opposite of the models design, these guys are in front not behind. If you compare your "defensive elf" to a Crimson night they are vey comparable. If you look at the generic card conversion chart in the rule book you'll see that pretty much everything on a card is weighed equally RAV, MAV, CP, Move, DV, MD... although discipline in not mentioned I can't see it being any different in value. Both models have MA 1, and their stat lines both add up to 35 combined points and both have 4 SA's. I can't see anyone who would be better to compare to for price than the Crimson Knight who is 33 points. Although some may argue your SA's are slightly more specialized and should be more expensive... you are only getting one damage track to the knights 2.

 

Other close models are:

 

Battle nuns 34 stat points, 1 SA but MA2 = 30

Paintenders 32 stat points, 3 SAs = 30

Shield Maidens 34 Stat points, 3 SA's = 26

Death Seekers 33 stat points, 4 SA's, MA 2 = 34

Blade Sister 34 stat points, 3 SA's = 26

Chosen of Sokar 36 stat points, 4 SA's = 31

Khamsin Dervishes 34 stat points, 4 SAs and MA 2 = 33

 

And there are at least another dozen soldier types that are built around 34-35 stat points with three or four SA's that cost less than 35 points.

[Storminator]

I would get rid of Raider, Reach and Tough that leaves you the four important SA's. Tough/1 is nice but it works 20% of the time. Raider is nice too but you only need 3's as it is. Reach is the opposite of the models design, these guys are in front not behind.

 

Reach negates the First Strike that a lot of Cavalry have.

 

PS

[cristomeyers]

Slightly off topic, but does anyone have any suggestions as to a mini or model I could use for the Elven Totem of Battle? I'm having a hard type coming up with a concept.

[Tsetsen Muur]

Slightly off topic, but does anyone have any suggestions as to a mini or model I could use for the Elven Totem of Battle? I'm having a hard type coming up with a concept.

I used an earth elemental, painted and flocked to look like a trent. (Actually, I use him as my tree-man. I've never painted up my tree-man).

[Darthiir]

Slightly off topic, but does anyone have any suggestions as to a mini or model I could use for the Elven Totem of Battle? I'm having a hard type coming up with a concept.

 

I used a wedding cake column and carved the celtic tree of life into it. there is a picture in the warlord fan gallery on reapergames.

[Feanor]

In the spirit of fun Ive cooked up a new list I hope to try soon. It is not designed to lay waste to my opposition but have a fun (bloody) game while still having the unknown victory factor.

Let me know hat you think.

 

Elvish “melee” list

 

Selwyn GMA 129

4 vale guard 76 troop standard 10

4 longthorns 80

Niriodel 3 bandages, hold 130

 

The main line moves forward to engage the enemy niriodle keeps em standing and picks at any baddies.

 

Arnise Improved protection, DF 89

4 deathseekers 136

Niriodel 2 bandages, bless, hold 125

 

deathseekers hold back slightly the move in for a the kill or take on any solo threats

 

Centaur 61

 

annoyance and sniper the usual

 

Meridh 36

2 vale archers 88

2 longthorns 40

 

another sniper unit

Total 1000

Again this isnt really meant to win a tournament its a fun brawler army where I just want to mix it up and see who survives.

[rgtriplec]

I am a Dwarf player and also have a Reven army but was in a tournament this weekend. My first game was Elves. It was 1000 points he had a souped up Danithal, Lysette with a few fireballs about four death seekers and the rest were archers and maybe Meridh.

 

It wasn't pretty for the short legs. Granted he must had sold his soul to the dice devil because he rolled at least one ten every activation and twice rolled three. But his army was pretty solid. The archers scored early from long range, then as I came within 18 the fireballs rained with the arrows. Danithal killed a Griffin.

 

Eventually by turn four I had mowed down the warlord and most of the melee troops but was very crippled. I had Logrim with GMA DF DV14 and maybe four Shield Maidens. He had an empty Lysette, his sgt, and about six archers. He would have eventually won outright.

 

It was a bounty game and he won by five but it was a very effective army and at 1500 with a few more archers, some more death seekers and long thorns and a couple fireballs or ice for the warlord it could be really nasty.

 

I want my next army to be elves... after the expand and are really powerful.

[Darthiir]

I've been play testing a number of various army setups to go up against the crypt legion. . .@#%^$$#$$# Ayssa, and with the tourney format that is favored here in the Forgewalk Marches I might actually have a chance at winning against the evil undead woman and her equally evil human controller (hi tony)!

 

 

 

I'd post the list here but i don't want to give anything away. But I will let you know how it works out this sunday.

[Darthiir]

leaving out the equipment, spells, and other sundry items here is a 1501 list that worked well in the tourney this past weekend.

 

 

troop 1:

danithal

warrior x11

 

troop 2

arnise

death seeker x6

 

troop 3

meridh

vale archer x6

 

troop 4

meridh

warrior x6

 

troops 5, 6, 7, 8

centaur, centaur, centaur, centaur

 

tactics vary on the army you are playing, sometimes two follow the death seekers in their suicidal charge giving cover fire with danithal and his warriors trailing behind as back up or they sit in cover. shooting down all available lanes of fire while the enemy tries to close the distance.

[Stubbdog]

Hold the Line: During its troop activation, if a Model with Hold the Line does not perform any Movement Actions, and sacrifices a Non-Combat Action, upon completion of the Troop's Activation (including resolution of Defensive Strikes), the Model gains a situational +2 bonus to DV until the Model's Troop is next activated. The Model loses the benefits of Hold the Line if it is forced to Move for any reason, for example Teleport, Part, Speed, etc between Activations. Defender Adjustment does not count as Movement. If a Model is currently Holding the Line when it is Activated, and does not Move, thus continuing to Hold the Line, the +2 bonus to DV remains in effect for Defensive Strikes if it Initiates Close Combat with an Enemy Model already in base to base contact with it. The Player must declare that the Model is Holding the Line and sacrifice their Non Combat Action prior to declaring Close Combat.

 

Forgive me, I have not come to read this thread in a long time. But, what you have described here is basically a souped up version of the Reptus Faction Special Ability.

 

Give up movement (non-combat action) to raise your DV +2 while attacking someone in close combat.

 

But, where as the Reptus faction special ability does not extend the DV bonus past the activation, you want "hold the line" to last all the way until the next activation as long as they are not forced to move in the meantime.

 

While I like the idea, I would have to cry foul if the Reptus SA were not augmented in some form or fashion to at least match if not take it a step further then your idea of Hold the Line.

[Qwyksilver]

Except you are comparing something that effects an entire army at no cost, vs a SA on single unit, that is Adept, which is added to the cost of the unit. So it's really apples and oranges.