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I'm not saying it isn't the least bit possible. Just that I might rather see a different size of Elemental (maybe even an Adept unit of them). But I total agree you can always invent plenty of new Special abilities.

 

Burrow as a free action just isn't an option in my opinion though, Burrow as a Move rather than an Invoke might work.

 

As a free action you could be burrowed, move to the surface, attack, and free burrow again. That means you'd only ever have to worry about defensive strikes, never about your opponent activating and attacking you. And your opponent could never get to you unless they had a Rock friends or Teleport, or a Burrower of their own. Not really all that fair (It would be like giving Guros back his ranged attack). Such a Burrower could choose when and where to make all of his attacks, and pick one grunt off at a time.

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If they do an artillery with minimum range I sure hope it's not 30, or even 24 inches. Armies *start* 24 inches away... somewhere around 30 inches away if you put your artillery at the very back edge. Especially with SA Gun (which makes 100% sense to put into an artillery piece) you *might* get one shot. I'd field it if it were worth 75 points absolute tops, and even then only if it had a soul cannon type RAV. Then there's the potential to pay for itself, but I need to be able to activate that before his whole army gets too close. If it has a minimum range of, say, 10 inches, and a max of 30, I'd be far more willing to field it. With Gun it's still not going to be able to pop off shot after shot after shot, there's still a sizeable blind spot, but not a crippling blind spot. Considering that any enemy worth his salt is going to get into b2b and/or in the blind spot ASAP if artillery is present, you might get one good shot off, and after that you're going to be making tough decisions about which of your models you're willing to drop artillery on - if you even have shots to make. I'd pay 150ish for something like that, and it makes sense for it to be a unique solitaire, otherwise you can put a pair of them down on opposite sides of your deployment zone and force-feed your opponent cheeze.

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This is for those of you Dwarf players that are going to be at the Cincinnatti tournament that is coming up. I played the following army over the summer at a tournament and took first place. :devil:

 

Fulumbar + 5 Piercers

Thorvald

Gargram + 5 Warriors

Thorvald

Gargram + 5 Warriors

Freya + Divine Favor + 4 Shieldmaidens + 5 Halberdiers + Musician

 

Totals: 1,000 Points, 30 Models, 6 Troops

 

I have rarely lost when playing this army. ::):

 

If you are feeling kinda saucy, and are just playing for fun, without a care about winning the tourney, then try this army on for size!

 

Logan + Divine Favor + Greater Magical Armor

Ivar + Lesser Magical Empowerment + 1 Cure + 1 Bless + 3 Bandage

5 Piercers

5 Shieldmaidens

Musician

Totem of Battle

 

Thorvald + Greater Magical Armor

 

Totals: 1,000 Points, 13 Models, 2 Troops

 

Yes, this army can win, but you better get your activations when you need them the most, otherwise... :lol:

 

However, you get Logan to get a charge off with one or two Shieldmaidens in support, BAM!! Instant MAV 9. That's almost autohits against a lot of things!!

 

I figured someone might get some use out of these armies besides myself. ^_^

 

Wild Bill :blues:

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Ok. Those who read my posts know that I have not yet complained about anything (on these boards at least!).

 

But I was just comparing the new Hanged mercinary warlord with the dwarf warlords. And it made me sad. I was comparing him to Thorgrim. Essentially similar melee potential. Bit different role in melee, but only by a bit, and numerically they are very similar. I realize it's the Scrye Shot that bumps Thorgrim up so high, but I was still frustrated. So then I compared Orba Sinhan and the new merc warlord to both dwarf warlords. He's got the same great melee potential. In fact he's got the same punch as Logan, minus first strike, but with a half way decent DV of 11, and he's cheaper. All of these models have tons of SA's too, so it's not like the Merc warlords are stripped down. In fact Logan is pretty streamlined along one type of tactic, so you'd think that for an un-versatile model he'd be fairly cheap, but nope, he's the 2nd most expensive warlord around. Maybe Insane! costs alot of points. Maybe tough/6 costs alot of points (but hey, at his last track I don't give a rip if he gets up or not. And with a tough like that you can bet your best jelly beans he's gonna get couped). Maybe Reaper will come up with a 100 point warlord for the final dwarf warlord, so that we have a good option.

 

I just don't get why dwarf warlords have to be so darned expensive! It completely changes the dwarf dynamic to play a warlord. Usually my armies revolve around strength in numbers, solid reach/trencher troops, decent (but not spectacular) leadership, and perhaps some good tank solos like Thorvald or the Griffon (finally got one!). Fairly straight forward melee army, lends itself well to Bane since it's hard hitting and in your face. Just like a dwarf army ought to be (well.. in your knees at any rate). And I know from corresponding with other dwarf players that this is their typical army theme as well. But then you add in a warlord and things change dramatically. I've got to figure out how I'm going to control the flow of the battle, I've got to make troops specifically designed to keep models off of my warlord. Why? Low DV and like a trillion points in that one model alone.

Why don't Dwarf Warlords fit the army theme?

Ought I be able to rely on my warlord to be a good but not stellar melee fighter, able to hold his own, one that I ought not to fear putting into the thick of things? Sure, I've got to support him. As you do any high cost model. But whenever Thorgrim is on the field the name of the game is "stall the enemy line, and hope to scrye shot a really unlucky mage that forgot to wear Divine Favor, do so within the hour time limit and before that mage can Firestorm, and pray to eek out a cost victory before time is up." As opposed to, I'm a dwarf, I have an axe, and now you don't have knees. Like it is w/o a warlord. And with Logan, with dv 9, I'm terrified to let enemies get close to him. 306 points of my force, close to 1/3 of it, tied up in one model. And I'm forced to be very cautious. And he's the melee specialist! I've got to put him in a troop to shield him and protect him and hide him. I have to put a cleric in there in case he gets hurt (because he will). I have to put some sort of range in his troop, because even 150ish point melee elites can wreck him if he doesn't land all 3 shots. It's far better to soften the target up first. But then, if I'm going to bother softening the target up first, why not use a 68 point Durgam Deepmug to finish it off? Ought my 300 point warlord be able to take on all commers in a man on man melee battle? Instead, no, he can't, he needs to hope the enemy can be killed in 3 shots - which it may, or it may not - and he must land all of his shots. Or else even GRUNTS can damage him easily on defensive strikes.

 

Reaper, I don't think you'll get a single fan complaint if you re-work your two Dwarf Warlords. Take out Thorgram's Scrye Shot, leave his 30 inch ranged attack if you like. I do like the concept of a versatile warlord. And I'd definately pay 264 points for a warlord like that. And do something with Logan too. Factor his low DV into his cost better. Perhaps the formula ought to reflect how dangerous it is to have a fragile model cost so many points, and so on high cost models low DV reduces the cost more significantly. I'd pay 200ish for Logan and not feel too bad about it, since he's gonna get hosed. And that's ok because a berserker is supposed to get hosed! So let him have low DV. Just don't let us dwarves have to pay so much for a throw away model. He'll find his mark, charge in all blaze and glory, kill his man and get mortally wounded, and spend another turn, maybe two, bringing down as many enemies as he can before his glorious end. If he kills a kitted out mage and a handful of grunts, say 4, that's.. 250 points worth of models, perhaps. Maybe more. And it's gonna be hard to pull that off versus a good (or even a decent!) enemy player. Take out Insane!. I bet that's what costs so much, since his other SA's aren't super duper really, more like regular (which is fine). Insane doesn't really help him. He has Dis 9 as it is so he can make contact with anything no problem. You can add fearless so he won't run away. And with a low DV like that, if he doesn't kill his man each time he won't have to worry about staying in b2b with enemy targets until they're dead, because he'll die first anyways!

 

And it won't even cost too much either. Just have somebody sit down at their desk, scratch out Scrye Shot, scratch out Insane, run the formulas again and knock the point costs down, upload the changes, and make a news post about it. An hour's work tops, and you'll be making alot of people very happy.

 

And I'm gonna try not to make another post like this for a loooong time. Don't really like this type of posting.

 

p.s. - am I spelling "ought" right?

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I must agree with not liking the GW Slayer-esque look to the new Warlord, especially if he foreshadows more of them coming. ::(:

 

 

I like him. Dwarfs are Nordic and he screms, VIKING, to me. I like both new models. I've played with both several times. The captain is very useable, but the warlord is too expensive unless you are playing 1500+. He also needs the 30 point armor upgrade or he is toast but that extra thirty points goes a long way.

 

 

As for elites I play Margara and Kara but to play either cost me a bundle. Kara is 168 ith gmu and Margara is 188 with gme and 100 points of spells. I started upgrading them to stretch to 1200 points which is what my opponents wanted to play. With both of them I'm 3-1. Margara usually takes out six-eight with 2 fireballs and Kara usually kills or inflicts a wound every shot. In my last game Kara and three piercers took out Captain Razig and five razig soldiers and Margara took out six Bone Marines and Chaingangers. It costs a lot to upgrade but you need range that is efficient against some armies like Razig where two out of three models have range. The army I faced had 8 marines and at least 5 heroes and leaders with range. It was like a turkey shoot.

 

This is for those of you Dwarf players that are going to be at the Cincinnatti tournament that is coming up. I

 

:wow: Hey where at in Cincinnati ? and what date?

Live about 50 miles North...

 

 

It is in Sharonville, at The World of Hobbies and Games, it is the Mosteller road exit and is in a huge plaza called the Micro Center. Below is from their forum announcement.

 

Saturday, November 4th

First game starts @ 11:00

 

Rounds:

3 games with Swiss pairing.

Each game will run a maximum of 6 rounds.

Each game has a time limit of 1 hour 10 minutes. At which point you will finish the deck you are currently on, and then end the game.

 

Armies:

1,000 point army.

No restrictions, except the basic rules in all printed materials and errata. We are using 1.2 revised stats.

All models stats can be found at:

http://warlordhq.reapergames.com/

*Login, click warlord, look under help, click Data Cards*

 

All armies must be approved by me.

Please e-mail me your army by Nov. 2nd to [email protected]

 

Cost:

Free to participate

 

Winning Conditions:

Each game will be bounty point based. Extra bounty points are given to the player who succeeds the mission objective.

 

Scenerios:

Lost Relics,

King of the Hill,

Slaughter.

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And it won't even cost too much either. Just have somebody sit down at their desk, scratch out Scrye Shot, scratch out Insane, run the formulas again and knock the point costs down, upload the changes, and make a news post about it. An hour's work tops, and you'll be making alot of people very happy.

 

Yes, you spelled ought correct. ^_^

 

And, I agree!! I have played games now with both Thorgrim and Logan. Thorgrim is absolutely worthless. With him in play, he is almost 1/3rd of my army, even at 1,501 points. Regardless of the warlord, I put Divine Favor and Greater Magic Armor on them, just to have a prayer of keeping them alive. That automatically boosts their points by 40. Isn't that fun?

 

I do basically the same as JD with Logan: I take him with 5 Shieldmaidens, 5 Piercers, and a decked out Ivar. I don't have a choice. Now, if I can get Logan's charge off with at least two Shieldmaidens in support, watch out!! He's a tank and a half. I also usually field a Totem, so he's MAV is like 9!! That's a very low roll to hit against a lot of models. But, heaven forbid you should whiff or worse yet, misjudge the distance or they get a counter-charge or something. Yes, Logan has 3 attacks coming back on Defense, but the damage is usually done.

 

I have never won a game using Thorgrim. Ever. He's just too worthless. I haven't won a game yet with Logan, but then I've only used him twice. ^_^ The first game was a 3-man free-for-all: me, Reptus, and Crusaders fielding 25% Lupines. I had a "mountain pass" being held by Logan and 2 Shieldmaidens (buffed by Ivar), Thorvald holding a second pass, and the 5 Piercers and 3 Shieldmaidens remaining holding a third pass. Logan managed to hold off half of the Reptus army (with Ivar's help) for like 3 complete turns. Thorvald held off and killed two Lupines and wounding a third before dying. My piercers finished off the wounded Lupine. The Crusader player died first, and I followed the next round.

 

The second game was a two-on-two battle (750 points each player) and all I had was Logan's unit. :devil: My partner was Reptus and had a ton of troops so I didn't worry. We won that game, but Logan didn't do much. That's ok.

 

I suggest dropping Insane! as well and making Logan like 215 points, and dropping Scrye Shot and making Thorgrim like 250 points. Then I would probably field these guys a lot more often!

 

 

 

 

As for elites I play Margara and Kara but to play either cost me a bundle. Kara is 168 ith gmu and Margara is 188 with gme and 100 points of spells. I started upgrading them to stretch to 1200 points which is what my opponents wanted to play. With both of them I'm 3-1. Margara usually takes out six-eight with 2 fireballs and Kara usually kills or inflicts a wound every shot. In my last game Kara and three piercers took out Captain Razig and five razig soldiers and Margara took out six Bone Marines and Chaingangers. It costs a lot to upgrade but you need range that is efficient against some armies like Razig where two out of three models have range. The army I faced had 8 marines and at least 5 heroes and leaders with range. It was like a turkey shoot.

 

 

How new is your opponent that you are playing against? Where I play, a tactic like that might work once, but it definitely won't work twice. We've all played enough that as soon as you hear a mage hit the table, our forces scatter, so at best one fireball will only get one or two models. I don't normally play with Kara as I have found her to be too expensive for too little return.

 

Wild Bill :blues:

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Insane! would almost certainly have very little points cost related to it, as it is nearly as negative as it is positive, given that you cannot break from combat. This is especially negative for a model with First Strike, who can use the First Strike ability every time they move into base to base and attack an enemy. As such Insane! likely hinders Logan more than it helps.

 

I can't say I'm a fan of Thorgrim at all, but Lagan is fairly playable in my opinion. It's the model I dislike, not the statistic block.

 

Tough/X on a 3+ track model is usually wasted points on any model due to their relative ineffectiveness on their last track, so I agree Tough/6 really blows if he is paying alot for it, seeing as how any enemy worth their salt would CdG in short order.

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As for elites I play Margara and Kara but to play either cost me a bundle. Kara is 168 ith gmu and Margara is 188 with gme and 100 points of spells. I started upgrading them to stretch to 1200 points which is what my opponents wanted to play. With both of them I'm 3-1. Margara usually takes out six-eight with 2 fireballs and Kara usually kills or inflicts a wound every shot. In my last game Kara and three piercers took out Captain Razig and five razig soldiers and Margara took out six Bone Marines and Chaingangers. It costs a lot to upgrade but you need range that is efficient against some armies like Razig where two out of three models have range. The army I faced had 8 marines and at least 5 heroes and leaders with range. It was like a turkey shoot.

 

 

How new is your opponent that you are playing against? Where I play, a tactic like that might work once, but it definitely won't work twice. We've all played enough that as soon as you hear a mage hit the table, our forces scatter, so at best one fireball will only get one or two models. I don't normally play with Kara as I have found her to be too expensive for too little return.

 

Wild Bill :blues:

 

 

Whether it works depends on the situation you play in. Sometimes you have to bunch up your troops to move between terrain- building, woods trees etceteras- or you have to position your troops in a certain area to get line of site. Maybe you have multiple large troops and it is early in a big game(the one I referenced was 1500) and you haven't really had time to space them the way you want. If having a Mage means that your troops will scatter or won't go through the bottle necks that are place on the board for just that reason. Then the fireballs work anyway by breaking your formation, delaying your attack, making you find a new route or go the long way around, which is usually covered by my better melee fighters. It is easier to pick apart a thin line than a supported one. Also players that use spearmen for reach are usually pretty close together. There are many reasons why troops get close in a game. Maybe I had lost an entire troop the turn before and my enemy was still packed together from the melee and then I drew my card before them on the next turn. Margara has a CP of 8 with GME, she hits a lot more than she misses, most of the time, I think she needed 4 to get a bone marine. Say I don't take two fireball and opt for one and five ice shards the result will be similar it will just be spread out over five or six turns.

 

If I did play in your group and everyone did as you and spread out their lines or move out of Margaras way... then I would drop a melee unit and pick up Sigurd, Eardain and 6 crossbows with the 25% merc rule. Then I'd have split mages with fire balls and archers on both sides and bears and crazy dwarf girls running the middle. Every tactic has a counter-tactic and those have counter-counter-tactics and if a mage can cause you to rethink your game then she is probably worth getting whether she kills her quota or just her presence ties up units.

 

I

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In the last game I played (two weeks ago), it was a team battle, 2-on-2, 750 points each. I had Fulumbar, Margara packing like 4 Ice Shards and a Dispel, and 5 Piercers in one troop. Then I had Gargram with 5 Warriors, THorvald, and a Griffon. My partner was playing Reptus and had 6 unit: 2 trolls, Uru, two Chai-Uuts with 3-4 Breakers, and an Audt with 3-4 Warriors and 2-3 Archers. (I apologize I don't remember the exact compostion) One of my opponents was playing Lupines. Lupine Lord, Shaman, 8 Lupines. I'm sure there were spells and magic items. The other opponent was playing Elves. One unit had Selwynn, the mage with almost the same spells as me, and like 6-8 Warriors. The other unit had their sgt with like 8-9 Archers.

 

In totals, we had 10 units to their 3. But, they had 4 cards thanks to the Lupine Lord's Tactician ability. We were playing on a 6x4 table with a 12" deep deployment zone that ran the length of the table. We pretty deployed (both teams) across the sides of the table. We didn't have a whole lot of choice, because of numbers. They made a tactical mistake by not bunching up to one side and attempting to steam roll us that way.

 

Anyways, during the course of my first turn, I move Margara around so I can Ice Shard a Lupine that is coming her way (with only Fulumbar for hand-to-hand support). I hit! Woo hoo! :bday: With the terrain that was on the table, I thought I was out of LOS for the pesky Elf archers. Whoops. This is no excuse, but I haven't played against Elves in a while and neglected the 1mm rule. So, he proceeds to take 4 Marksmen shots at Margara and kills her. First turn dead. That sucked.

 

However, I quickly managed to return the favor. My Griffon had rangered out to the middle of the board and I had set him on top of a building. He was still technically flying, but it was easier just to put him there for clarity's sake. Did they forget about him? I don't know. I just know that when his activation came at the end of the turn (yes, I held him off on purpose) the Elf player had misjudged the distance between his mage and the Griffon, so I got the charge off and WHAM! Dropped his mage. He had cast an Ice Shard against something like Thorvald or Uru, but rolled a one (I think!). Then he became lunch. :devil:

 

So, end of turn one: no more mages. D'oh! :wacko:

 

The Elf player activates before me in turn 2. He then proceeds to swarm the Griffon with his warriors and does two wounds. I kill two Warriors in return. (As a side note, I was rolling like a Dwarven gawd that night. They weren't. :devil::lol: ) Then, I get to activate. I reposition my Griffon, and kill two more Warriors. They whiff. I activate again. Thorvald rushes in there and finished off the Warriors. Yeah, that ruled. :upside:

 

By the end of round 4, the game was over. We had pretty much cleaned house. The Lupine player had sent some diversionary Lupines my way, but the bulk of his army was parked on a hill. My partner slammed everything he had up that hill (think Hamburger Hill! :lol: ) before the Lupines finally fell to superior numbers. That was a bloody fight. I did lose a few models, and the Griffon was wounded, but I was still alive and well for the most part. ^_^

 

Wild Bill :blues:

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Ok, so as I am imitating Qwyk sitting here at work playing with Warlord armies :lol: , I decided to develop a 1,501 point army for Stubbdog's tournament in November. However, the one caveat was that I was going to make it one troop!! Why? Because I can! That's why! :bday:

 

I'm sure I would get my butt handed to me, and assuming that would happen, this list is NOT to be used to playtest Thorgram to determine if he is "viable" or not. :poke:

 

With that said:

 

Thorgram + DV + GAU + GMA + MMP

Kara + GAU + GMA + MMP

Margara + GME + GMA + MMP + 1 Firestorm + 1 Dispel + 2 Bolt + 2 Ice Shard

9 Shieldmaidens

Musician

Standard Bearer

Totem of Battle

 

Totals: 1,489 Points, 12 Models, 2 Cards (including 1 Tactician)

 

This is my Pimp Army!?! Why? Because you have the King and nothing but babes! Hail to the King baby! :bday::devil::lol:

 

The general idea would be to sit back and let King and Kara do their shooty thing, and Margara blasting away with spells. Then, if someone gets too close, the 'Maidens close in and start beating on whatever it is! That's why the Standard Bearer is there. That +1 DIS could come in handy... :upside:

 

Wild Bill :blues:

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Interesting. You'll have to be right on the money with Margara's Firestorm. I really do think that will be the deciding factor on whether it becomes a stand up fight or if you get steamrolled. Drop that fire on a good cluster of enemies, take out a troop - and I'd give you a solid chance of making it out alive with at least one model!

 

Don't get too touchy with Critical and Scrye shot though. Keep mobile. RAV 5 is excellent, no need to get greedy with Kara and Critical unless you know she's in no danger. And you won't have too many issues with LOS so take regular shots with the King and then move him away as much as you can.

 

I like the magical protection on the leader and elites. So many times I've tricked out a model, just to have it icesharded :\

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I was basing my MMPs on the fact that when I face the Darkspawn, I routinely face a decked out Witch Queen with CP 10! :blink: That means she only needs to rolls like a 2 or something to hit me. :blink:

 

So, I attempted to at least keep her honest!! :lol:

 

That is a good point about keeping mobile. With only one card in the deck on deployment, my hope would be that they would have to deploy almost everything first. Then, I would choose what would look to be the weakest side and deploy there. It would definitely be fun to play with!! ^_^

 

Wild Bill :blues:

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Quickie 500pt army.

 

When I do a smaller point total build I usually like to select one leader, elite, or solo, and design the army around him/her/it.

 

in this case it's Snorri!

 

Snorri w/+2RAV and +2DV

Gargram w/4 Warriors and Music

Gargram w/4 Warriors and Music

 

Snorri will hang back between both troops, let them engage, and he'll do the sneaky bast*** thing and shoot from safety.

 

You could do a 2 troop army and switch out a gargram for a Fulumbar and use Kara instead and you wouldn't have to invest as many points into upgrades for Snorri that way since Kara kicks total butt at range anyways.

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