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I still say the best way to beat range is just to charge. Go all out and run. Hiding behind terrain (super seeker volley or no) only slows you down, and the slower you advance on a ranged army the more they get to plink away at you. Most dwarves double move at around 12-14 inches. That's 2 turns and you'll be in base to base, perhaps even doing some damage of your own. An elf army usually won't have more than 10ish models with bows, and the max RAV is 3. 2 on some of them. Law of averages states that you'll lose 5 models on turn one and 5 models on turn two. At that point you're in melee range and the advantage is now yours, because you've got support, better MAV/DV than the elves, and so forth.

 

Thow in a Divine Favor-ed Margara with a Firestorm to even the odds. Keep her screened - then the only threat is volley, and IF they hit Divine Favor negates it. Make sure you activated them with a double move first turn, and 2nd turn try to go first with that troop, pull the screen away and move Margara forward, she ought to be in prime position for a Firestorm now, let it fly, watch the elves run around with their hair on fire, then double move her screen to protect her again (if you've given her more spells... otherwise maybe double mover her screen to make b2b with the elves. Who knows, you may get a first turn firestorm if the elf moves its melee screen into range. Margara with musician moves 7 inches, plus 18 inches on the firestorm, that comes out to 25 inches. Ought to be plenty if you've got a straight shot.

 

All that said, light woods are still your friend. Anything that blocks/hinders LOS but allows you to move along at full speed wins in my book! Blocking, less so, because breaking cover and continuing the charge will be clumsy. Low walls might end up being nice since they only chew up an inch to cross but anything up to 2 inches behind it can get a +1 DV versus ranged. You'd want to be careful to place them so that you can hide without slowing down too much - and you certainly don't want to have it too far out so you can't get to it in time to hide! That'd stink!

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<summary = Charge the Elves!>

You'll charge the meat shields on turn 3 and then maybe the archers on turn 4. Any soft targets (Piercers, Margara, etc.) are toast if there are any hills for the Elven archers to stand on since then you won't be able to screen them. I would use Lightning Bolt instead of Firestorm: MOV 7 + 24" range = 31". Lightning Bolt also penetrates farther to the rear behind screening models to get those pesky archers - all at a 25 point discount! :devil:

 

Rich

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I always forget about Lightning bolt. And yeah, I didn't think of what would happen if the elves were retreating to the back of their DZ during my charge. That'd change things wouldn't it!

 

meh, so it's bloody. I still say charge. The Dwarves rely on swinging axes and hammers and swords. We can't outlast the Elvies in a ranged fight, so our only option is to close the gap quickly and go for blood and glory.

 

Maybe I'm just tactically simple :D Maybe that's not a "maybe!"

 

What about using Herryk and Ivar to cast Hold spells? If you could pin them...?

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If those pesky Elf archers keep moving, that means that they are only shooting one shot each per turn. I'm game for that. No problem. Besides, while they have long range, most of the targets that I present them will need an 8+ to hit. That is far from a gimme. I'm with Jim. Run your butt as fast as you can across the field and engage the enemy!! If you are fielding a bear and a griffon, that is just too sweet of a deal!! This might sound odd, but I have used the Griffon not to engage the archers (my players won't keep them together, so the most I could hit would be one anyways) but the speedbumps. Let the Griffon tie them up, and the rest of my army strolls right on by ready to whoop up on the Elves.

 

Now, the one model that scares me most out of the entire Elf army is Mossbeard. That dude is one tough tree. :lol: I have a 2,500 point Elf army where there are 4 Mossbeards in it. :blink: I'm still working on trying to develop an anti-"4 Mossbeard" army at that level. It ain't easy. :wacko:

 

Wild Bill :blues:

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Now, the one model that scares me most out of the entire Elf army is Mossbeard. That dude is one tough tree. :lol: I have a 2,500 point Elf army where there are 4 Mossbeards in it. :blink: I'm still working on trying to develop an anti-"4 Mossbeard" army at that level. It ain't easy. :wacko:

 

I still think Beastmen Woodcutter should get a Situational Close Combat Modifier of +1 MAV vs Mossbeard at an absolute minimum.

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I know this may be a bit late but it seems we may our best warlord yet in the form of that cleric warlord. Though, I'm pretty sure some of us will still find something to complain about him. I wonder what monster slayer does though.

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I know this may be a bit late but it seems we may our best warlord yet in the form of that cleric warlord. Though, I'm pretty sure some of us will still find something to complain about him. I wonder what monster slayer does though.

 

Unless I am playing a game/tournament with some sort of uber-goofy format where taking Thorgrim or Logan would be necessary, Herryk is my Warlord of choice from here on out!! 5 damage tracks. MAV 5. Warmaster. All kinds of other goodies. He's cheap. What's not to love? :wub:

 

I actually got to use Monster Slayer once with Herryk!! I was playing against Reptus, 1,501 point battle. I supplied my opponent with a copy of my army list and a stat sheet so there were no surprises. He still decided to charge Uru against Herryk. Sweet. Herryk had DF and GMA, giving him a DV 13. Uru has a DV 14, and didn't have magic items. He needed 8s to hit me, and I needed 7s to hit him with Monster Slayer. He wounded me once (DF!) and I killed Uru on defensive strikes! :lol:

 

I love Herryk now. :wub:

 

Wild Bill :blues:

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<summary = Charge the Elves!>

You'll charge the meat shields on turn 3 and then maybe the archers on turn 4. Any soft targets (Piercers, Margara, etc.) are toast if there are any hills for the Elven archers to stand on since then you won't be able to screen them. I would use Lightning Bolt instead of Firestorm: MOV 7 + 24" range = 31". Lightning Bolt also penetrates farther to the rear behind screening models to get those pesky archers - all at a 25 point discount! :devil:

 

Rich

 

I thought volley hit all targets in an area so wouldn't any soft targets be toast or at least badly damaged as long as the elves are within 36"?

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I thought volley hit all targets in an area so wouldn't any soft targets be toast or at least badly damaged as long as the elves are within 36"?

Not toast, just one point of damage. A cleric another 24" to the rear can pop a Bandage to make everything better (or Divine Favor gives one free pass). A RAV 3 is also not an auto-hit even against a low DV like DV 8. DV 10 (DV 8 + Improved Protection) and Divine Favor would let Margara do OK against a pie plate of doom. However, Margara is doomed if being shot at by multiple RAV 3 attacks, such as a bunch of Elves on a hill shooting individually.

 

Rich

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I thought volley hit all targets in an area so wouldn't any soft targets be toast or at least badly damaged as long as the elves are within 36"?

Not toast, just one point of damage. A cleric another 24" to the rear can pop a Bandage to make everything better (or Divine Favor gives one free pass). A RAV 3 is also not an auto-hit even against a low DV like DV 8. DV 10 (DV 8 + Improved Protection) and Divine Favor would let Margara do OK against a pie plate of doom. However, Margara is doomed if being shot at by multiple RAV 3 attacks, such as a bunch of Elves on a hill shooting individually.

 

Rich

 

I only think the Warlord will be used with the Scrye volley in 1501+ games and he'll probably have 10 archers. If I was playing elves (which I will be soon, I only need the warlord, a blister of archers and a few more long thorns or breakers to be at 1500+) I'd go for the twenty shots to get the 10" pieplate volley with Scyre shot.

 

Here are the chances of taking a wound from an elven volley. DV 8 = 60%, 9 = 50%, 10 = 40% and 11 = 30%, 12 = 20, 13+ = 10%.

 

As for the solos when they are close enough to be dangerous the Warlord has critical shot so his Rav is 6. He also has a melee equal to the bear. And they have I think four Mages that can Ice Shard and Lysette can wound a healthy Griffin at 5 or 3 with GME .

 

Any magic used can also be countered by Lysette and Ardynn and if Margara gets hit first you'll be out of luck. They also may choose to have two smaller volleys, a scrye and then a direct or indirect. Volley will be deadly in the first two rounds, especially the first when everything is bunched in the deployment zone. By turn three when you hit the speed bumps and are in the open it will just be a rainstorm of two dozen shots. With average roll and initiative by turn three you could lose a dozen or more models if you take a lot of piercers, halberds and swift axes. Once they start running it will just be you chasing a hare and losing a couple minis a turn. Eventually you will corner them somewhere but how much of your army will be left?

 

I actually think Dwarfs will fair the best against the Scrye volley due to warriors and maidens, all the leaders and elites except the Warlords and Margara and Kara all have a DV 10/11 + Deflect. Herryk doesn't have deflect but does have a DV 11 and you can give him armor. So when I am playing elves, I will be passing on Margara and Kara, Thorgrim and Logrim and all the grunts but Maidens and Warriors. Even with the high DV you are still taking a wound 1 out of 3 or 4 shots.

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I actually think Dwarfs will fair the best against the Scrye volley due to warriors and maidens, all the leaders and elites except the Warlords and Margara and Kara all have a DV 10/11 + Deflect. Herryk doesn't have deflect but does have a DV 11 and you can give him armor. So when I am playing elves, I will be passing on Margara and Kara, Thorgrim and Logrim and all the grunts but Maidens and Warriors. Even with the high DV you are still taking a wound 1 out of 3 or 4 shots.

An army of all Shieldmaidens and Warriors will run over the Elves every time by the end of turn 5 no matter what the Elves bring. However, many people find such grunt-fest armies to be boring to play.

 

Rich

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I thought volley hit all targets in an area so wouldn't any soft targets be toast or at least badly damaged as long as the elves are within 36"?

Not toast, just one point of damage. A cleric another 24" to the rear can pop a Bandage to make everything better (or Divine Favor gives one free pass). A RAV 3 is also not an auto-hit even against a low DV like DV 8. DV 10 (DV 8 + Improved Protection) and Divine Favor would let Margara do OK against a pie plate of doom. However, Margara is doomed if being shot at by multiple RAV 3 attacks, such as a bunch of Elves on a hill shooting individually.

 

Rich

 

Siftaxes, halberders, and piercers are all toast as none of them have tough and even if they did you can't heal them all. Snorri and Kara, and Margara won't last long without healing. I suppose you'd end up with an army that looked something like this to fight them.

 

1501 Pts - Dwarves Company - Unnamed

 

Troop (6#, 426 Pts)

1 Herryk Aesir, High Cleric Warlord @ 291 Pts

1 Improved Protection

1 Spell - Bandage

1 Spell - Dispel

1 Spell - Teleport

5 Dwarven Warriors

1 Troop Musician @ [15] Pts

 

Logrim Battlefury (7#, 321 Pts)

1 Logrim Battlefury

1 Improved Protection

1 Spell - Bless

1 Spell - Speed

6 Dwarven Warriors

1 Troop Musician

 

Freya Fangbreaker (10#, 336 Pts)

1 Freya Fangbreaker, Shieldmaiden

1 Divine Favor

9 Dwarven Shieldmaidens

1 Troop Musician

 

Griffon (1#, 174 Pts)

1 Griffon

 

Thorvald Clawhelm (1#, 121 Pts)

1 Thorvald Clawhelm, Bear Rider

1 Improved Protection

 

Thorvald Clawhelm (1#, 121 Pts)

1 Thorvald Clawhelm, Bear Rider

1 Improved Protection

 

Total Company Cost: 1499

 

Can Logrim cast speed on the Griffon, then Herryk teleports him then the speeded Griffon moves and or attacks? I know this would take three inititives and you would want to wait until the archers went before you telepoted the Griffion but can you do this? Can you make a Griffion into an ICBM with a 35" to 57" range depending on attacks :blink: Of course you could do this with one of the bears which may be better because you can take advantage of terrain to make them use the WL use his scrye shot to hit the bear and only getting shot once instead of the griffon getting shot at by multiple archers while flying.

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