Denelspire (1.2)

[spiritual_exorcist]

What miniatures are available for use in the Army of Justice and Crusader lists from the Faction book?

 

I plan on starting both a Crypt Legion Army and a Crusader army, but don't want to buy any Crusader models I wont be able to use.

 

Legion minis I'm buying are

Deluxe Starter set

Necropolis Stater box

Crypt Legion Starter box

2 blisters Skeletal Archers

Railor

Lord Kentaur

Grave Horror or Bone Horror (haven't decided yet)

 

So, I'd appeciate either a list of minis from the armies or, a list of minis I should pick up.

 

Thanks

 

As far as I can tell the only mini in the batch you wouldn't be able to use is Malek from the Necropolis Starter. Other than that any non-vampire Undead model from the Necropolis Legion list can be used in the Crypt Legion (there might be a few exceptions, but I can't think of any).

 

The Crypt Legion is a cool army to start with, but eventually I'd recommend picking up some of the Vampires, they are quite powerful in my mind, and probably one of the most fun units to use in the game.

 

The Army of Justice uses all of the Templar units and characters, avoid the Ivy Crown (including the War Dogs), and followers of Gianovia (Nuns and Hospitaliers).

 

Unlike the Crypt Legion the Army of Justice is very niche, it will struggle against a number of opponents in my opinion. If you're just starting off I'd suggest going Default, that way you get to emply the mighty mercy ability, and you can take some of the coolest units the Crusaders have (Hospitaliers and War Dogs).

[Photodork57]

I am planning on buying the books when I buy the minis. I am ordering from ERH in a week or two. I jsut want to get a heads up on the minis because I wouldn't want to have to order the book and do another order later after I get some lists put together that I want to play with.

 

There are 3 minis that I can't use out of the Necropolis minis and those are all from the boxed sets. Naomi or something from the warlord starter box and the Warlord and mage from the Necro starter box.

 

The default army sounds better than the army of Justice, but what minis should I buy to start out on that list?

 

I plan on expanding both lists eventually, especially the Necropolis list. I would love to have both armies, Crypt Legion and Vampire lists, eventually to play either with each other or against each other. Maybe that would work...... just buy all the Necropolis models and do two Necro armies. Maybe...

[Storminator]

I've recently realized that you can build an Army of Justice army, without violating the default army rules, and then you don't need to declare if you're AoJ or default. I don't think you need to declare one way or the other until you use a Faction Ability!

 

PS

[spiritual_exorcist]

Very true, I've made up several such lists, and it is pretty easy to do. I agree that I don't think you should have to declare which you are using in anything but a tourney setting, where I would expect you would probably have to commit to the same throughout the whole tourney.

 

I typically bring a unit of Templar Kinights and a unit of Justicars, and rather than adding my usual 2nd unit of Templar Knights in such a situation I would probably consider fielding a small unit of Unforgiven instead, and possibly a Solo or two which i would normally leave at home in favour of extra Knights.

[vutpakdi]

I think that it'd be a courtesy to declare what list you are using to your opponent before the game starts and not a turn or two into the game.

 

That said, I've had the same thought about doing a list that can either be a Tomukh or a Grand Reven list though, the trick only works up to a certain point level.

 

Ron

[spiritual_exorcist]

The problem with doing a Tomukh/Great Reven list is that the primary advantages of taking the Grand Reven list are the high level of model choices available, and Horde. In creating a Tomukh list that could be used as Great Reven you end up losing both og these abilities (as you limit yourself to Tomukh models, and you can't employ Horde in a Tomukh list).

 

So the abilities you would be focused on using in a Great Reven that wouldn't compomise a Tomukh sub-list build are Steppe-born, and Mob mentality. And to be honest, with only these as your faction abilities, I can't see any circumstance in which I wouldn't rather be using Innate: Warcy and Enraged. It just doesn't have the same appeal as a Default Crusader/Army of Justice.

 

Likewise Crypt Legion gain Fear of Undead in their sub-faction, and the other default Necropolis powers are Vampiric, so making a Crypt Legion that can also be a default list isn't worthwhile either.

 

The Hardest point level to build this sort of multi-faction/sub-faction list is 1500, once you hit 2000 you can take a second unit of adepts of each type, but at 1500 I think you would struggle. 1000 points doesn't seem to be a real problem though.

 

Example:

 

Troop 1

Lord Iron Raven 105

+Spear of Aurellius 25

Halbarad 85

+Divine Favor 10

+3xBandage 30

+1xHold 25

7xTemplar Knights 189

2xIron Spines 42

+ Standard 10

=521

 

Troop 2

Sir Brannor 77

+Familiar 20

+Squire 10

+4xBandages 40

Finari 52

9xJusticars 279

=478

 

Total= 999, 2 Initiative Cards, 22 models

 

Low model count I admit, but it really takes advantage of both the Mercy aspect of the Default list (Event he Knights and Ironspines have Disciplines 8 and 7), and includes plenty of models to make the Armor of the Faithful and Judgement widespread in an Army of Justice list. Still, 22 models is a little worrisome, and so is 2 cards. Dropping Finari + Brannor's Familiar, Squire, and 2 Bandages would give you enough points to add a Celestial Lion, which help your model count, but the extra card would be handy (and you'd have points left over to give one of your Clerics a Bless).

[Storminator]

The Hardest point level to build this sort of multi-faction/sub-faction list is 1500, once you hit 2000 you can take a second unit of adepts of each type, but at 1500 I think you would struggle. 1000 points doesn't seem to be a real problem though.

 

Build it at 1501, and you can use Gerard's Wolf ability to get an extra set of Knights at least.

 

I'm sure you're all tired of hearing it by now, but I've grown to detest 1500 point games.

 

PS

[Shakandara]

With the discussion of the convertible list, I built this one last night, with the idea of being able to have a good number of activations, a mix of grunts and solos, and heavy on the Judgement-capable models, so as to be able to take advantage of the Justice sublist abilities. Here's what I came up with at 1000 points...

 

Troop 1

Ironraven w/Spear of Aurelius, DF

Finari

Templar Knights x9

 

Troop 2

Sir Conlan

Justicars x6

 

Troop 3

Kitty 'o Doom

 

Troop 4

Hound 'o Judgement

 

999 points, 4 Troops, 4 Cards, 20 models

 

Again, the list suffers from low model count, but what Crusader list doesn't? The biggest hole I see here is that the army can take no advantage of the Crusader faction being cleric-heavy for healing. However, there are 10 models in the list that can take advantage of Judgement, and Finari and all those Justicars can make good use of the Armor of the Faithful SA on their 2nd track. When using Mercy in a default list situation, you have 4 chances every round to Mercy models, and each troop has at least one model of Dis 8 or higher.

 

This is all well and good in theory...

 

~v

[spiritual_exorcist]

Build it at 1501, and you can use Gerard's Wolf ability to get an extra set of Knights at least.

 

I'm sure you're all tired of hearing it by now, but I've grown to detest 1500 point games.

 

PS

 

I'd be alot more tempted if I could bring along a 2nd group of Justicars...curse 'The Wolf' for not being an Army of Justice faction ability as well as default (I still shake my head that using 'The Wolf' I can take more Justicars that I can in their of sub-faction as a default list).

 

So you'd have to bring along the extra Knights instead, tis a good point Stormy.

[Storminator]

Build it at 1501, and you can use Gerard's Wolf ability to get an extra set of Knights at least.

 

I'm sure you're all tired of hearing it by now, but I've grown to detest 1500 point games.

 

PS

 

I'd be alot more tempted if I could bring along a 2nd group of Justicars...curse 'The Wolf' for not being an Army of Justice faction ability as well as default (I still shake my head that using 'The Wolf' I can take more Justicars that I can in their of sub-faction as a default list).

 

So you'd have to bring along the extra Knights instead, tis a good point Stormy.

 

I think the AoJ gets The Wolf FA.

 

The following army Special Ability [sic] are available to Army of Aurellius sub-list fighting comanies only. Army of Aurellius sub-list companies lose access to and may not use the Special Ability: Mercy as described in the standard Crusaders list. In echange, an Army of Aurellius fighting company gains the following Special Ability: Armor of the Faithful.

(emphasis mine)

 

It looks to me like the only FA that the AoJ loses is Mercy. They, of course, lose Healing Graces on a technicality (no Hospitaliers). Has this been ruled on contrary to my reading?

 

PS

[spiritual_exorcist]

No, no ruling either way despite me asking on more than one occassion.

 

I do see your point, but previous faction books have specifically listed any of the default lists special abilities directly under those of the sub-faction.

 

The Crusader book is a bit poorly worded, not to mention this particular section is very shadey.

 

Re-reading it I can see why you make your conclusion, it doesn't specifically say you can't use anything other than Mercy, but it doesn't list 'The Wolf' specifically as one you can use (Healing Graces, Hospitaliers, and Non-Unique Models don't apply, so the only one in Question is Gerards 'THe Wolf').

 

It certainly makes sense you should be able to use it, it is more a direct power of Gerard, and it seems strange it would not be available to him in both lists, so I am inclined to agree with your assessment.

[wrightjd]

so who is this new Sir Theo character that seems to be coming to shelves soon? Sounds like another mini I'm going to have to pick up, and it says he's a Justicar so I imagine he's either a hero or a captain. Though I won't deny that a sergeant that could take an elite would be nice :P

[Qwyksilver]

Since the Crusader book is complete, I would hazard a guess that Sir Theo the Justicar will likely find his way into the upcoming Mercenary book.

 

Remember the Justicars do travel, and he may have attached himself to the Bladesisters to aid them in their fight against evil, or he could have even shed his bonds from Denelspire altogether, left the Crusaders and joined in with Orba or the Hanged Men. In a perverse joke, he may have continued to use his Justicar title.

 

I could see him possibly being a Sgt or Cpt with the Sinhan or Hanged Men, but I would guess he is probably a Hero or Solitaire, especially if he finds his way into the Bladesisters.

[Krztoff]

Sir Theo the Bladesister...

 

very interesting...

[Arbiter10]

I fear that the truth of which faction Sir Theo belongs to may be something much more sinister: Paizo.com has him listed under Darkspawn. It may be that he has somehow been corrupted and has joined the forces of darkness. Or, it could be that Paizo just made a mistake.