Denelspire (1.2)

[rcrosby]

I have a few questions about models I've yet to use and was wondering what people thought of them:

 

Lady Jehanne, Herne, Isarah, Saramonde, Light Lancers, War Dogs.

 

How useful do you find these models to be? Do you take them frequently in your lists? An example troop (or army in Lady Jehanne's case) would be cool too.

 

Also after using hospitalers, I'm not sure if I can ever go back to the army of Justice. Hospitalers seem to be the bread and butter that keep the Crusader army together. Between them and two clerics in the army I think I'll be able to devise a good darkspawn fighting army finally.

I think Herne and Light Lancers are a good addition to a troop that would otherwise be Conlan & Skirmishers for boosting Dis for Mercy. Replace Conlan with Herne or just add in one Light Lancer. The extra speed is helpful for getting to the rear for a MAV boost and immunity to Defensive Strikes after the Skirmishers tie up the front of an enemy Model. Saramonde with her Rogue SA could also serve this purpose in a Brannor troop, although Brannor's own high Dis makes her a bit redundant and you would have to be very careful with her since she is so fragile.

 

I prefer Isarah to Halbarad because I don't like fighting with Clerics. She is better and cheaper if you just want a Cleric that will be a Cleric. Give her Improved Protection and she is DV9 + Deflect + Cavalry = DV12 vs ranged which is all you need unless facing RAV3 archers.

 

I only like Lady Jehanne in special scenarios like Equipment Ho! where the number of Models is artificially limited. She is too fragile in a game where she can be swarmed.

 

I don't have any use for War Dogs. Distract could be useful against a very expensive enemy Model, but there are cheaper alternatives that are more effective.

 

Rich

[spiritual_exorcist]

It is appealing to take Garr + War Dogs as a troop. I believe this is a rather poor combination however.

 

To be worth their point War Dogs need to be using Distract, therefore just like any other model with distract they are best used in combination with heavy hitting melee models. I suggest pairing 2 of them in a troop with someone like Marcus Gideon or Sir Daman.

 

They are hefty in points cost, but I think they can be made, DV 8 is pretty terrible, but with Cavalry they aren't nearly as vulnerable to archers as they seem, and Tough/1 makes them decent candidates for Bandage spells.

 

My belief is that Distract models are particularly well equiped to deal with those models employing Warmaster, or models with decent combat skills but low Discipline that prevents them from just breaking away(Like Braug, or Ra'am).

 

In the case of Warmaster models, Distract prevents the Warmaster from truley being effective until he kills of the model with Distract. If you block a model in so it cannot flee, it is able only to make it's single defensive strike, until it kills off the dogs and can break, or other models come it it's rescue, in the mean time you can have at the trapped model with your big hitting melee attacker accompanying the dogs. At this point the dogs are more of a threat than your heavy hitter, so even if they die just having a couple along will easily increase the effectiveness of your accompanying melee tank.

 

I like the Dogs a little more than other Distract models due to their Cavalry base size that helps them hold models in place. Multiple dogs place on a #MA 2 Captain can prevent such a model from doing pretty much anything. If they just stand and distact they can hold such a model up for some time if your oppoentn doesn't have any resources to deal with the dogs.

 

I've considered 2 Dogs + 5 Justicars + 1 Hospitalier + Kristianna. Kristianna's ability to heal and keep the dogs on their feet could be exceptional, as it might allow the Justicars to do some real fancy work. Just a thought.

 

Distract is a finesse special ability, it isn't all that easy to use. I wouldn't say it isn't worth it's points costs, but it is difficult to use properly. I suspect the larger the game the easier it would be to use.

[Storminator]

I like the War Dogs to take out a powerful solo. Two Wardogs on the Hill Giant (if you bracket him so he can't move), and you don't have to fight him until you want to.

 

Don't forget that reducing Dis makes Mercy easier too.

 

And finally, if you use Gerard, you can pop War Dogs in two different troops, Gerard's and one other.

 

PS

[Stubbdog]

I like the War Dogs to take out a powerful solo. Two Wardogs on the Hill Giant (if you bracket him so he can't move), and you don't have to fight him until you want to.

 

Don't forget that distract is considered an attack. The Giant would get a defensive swing at the dogs for doing it. You would need more than 2 on something as big as him.

[Storminator]

I like the War Dogs to take out a powerful solo. Two Wardogs on the Hill Giant (if you bracket him so he can't move), and you don't have to fight him until you want to.

 

Don't forget that distract is considered an attack. The Giant would get a defensive swing at the dogs for doing it. You would need more than 2 on something as big as him.

 

 

No it's not. It's an Invoke Action, so there's no Defensive Strikes. The target still has a DS if someone else attacks it, but not from Distract.

 

And I think the Dis penalty is only for leaving B2B. Oh well.

PS

[spiritual_exorcist]

YEah, that's the beauty of Distract, if you reduce it's #MA enough and don't attack the model it can't attack you.

 

No Storm, you were right, Discipline is likewise reduced by 1 per each Distract. I hadn't considered this, but this makes the Dogs potentially fairly useful when combined with models that have Shock as well.

 

And you're dead on about Mercy, these guys can quickly allow you to Mercy many high Dis models.

[Lawgiver]

Anyone have any tips for maximizing Kristiana's usefulness and keeping her alive long enough to be worth her points?

 

I've not used her yet, but will probably field her in my next game. I'm thinking surrounding her with 2 track Justicars is the way to go so her holy burst keeps them alive longer.

[Qwyksilver]

Use nothing but Dispells on her to protect against AOE attacks and surround her with Justicars or Templar Knights in a wedge formation with her in the middle.

 

	K1
 K2K1K3
K4K2WLK3K5
K4ISWLISK5
 IS  IS

 

Each Number or letter = a 1/2 " square.

Each K# = a Templar Knight. Notice Each one takes up a 1"x1" area to represent the base.

WL is Kristiana

IS is an Ironspine

 

The Ironspines are a base width apart. Because of the no sliding rule, no one can get to Krissy's rear base without first engaging them and killing at least one first, so that gap is safe. Krissy is 2" from every model so her Holy burst will hit them all, and Dispell with protect the whole bunch as well. Unless someone targets only the VERy front row, but then you Holy Burst. Also, just about any Undead model fighting the wedge will also be within the 2" radius of a Holy Burst too, so she can blast from safety.

 

The Ironspine can lend support to either of the lower knights. I've also considered setting up Finari as the point of the Wedge.

 

I've found the formation to work very nicely.

 

I also had Sir Damon in this troop running around solo. I might remove him to add in some more knights and Finari instead because he is SO expensive.

[Brushmaster]

Also give her a couple of Dispells and Divine Favour (30pts total) to help take care of any AOE spells they may throw at you .

[jdripley]

I'm no righteous tin can like yourselves here in the Crusader's thread, but I have a question for you. Does anybody use Marcus Gideon? Or has the "he's a rogue/cleric hybrid and he costs too much" fate befallen him? Because when I look at him I just see useful written all over him. Spy.. right away you get a deployment boost. He's obviously most useful against Evil armies with Holy. 50/50 chance to cast friendly spells.. bandage is about all I'd put on him, but it's concievable that a bless would help. He's a cleric so you could put greater magic defense on him. Rogue with 3 attacks and MAV 4 is just incredible! That's bad news no matter what model he's attacking! I think Marcus would probably be best in a smallish game.. 750 or around there.. where he isn't going to be threatened by swarm too much, and can dominate offensively with his Rogue ability. On top of it all he's got a slick sculpt!

 

So sorry for cutting in on your thread and all, but I just wanted to tip my hat to Gideon and see who else thinks he's incredible.

[Sergei]

I like the concept of Marcus Gideon. Give me an undead hunter any day of the week. I'm still holding out for an undead hunter sublist. But I'm not crazy about the model. I have it and plan to use him, especally with Lady Kris. But just don't like the sword, holy symbol, or high coller thing.

 

Maybe my opion will change after I paint him up.

[Qwyksilver]

I would much rather see an Ivy Crown sublist.

[Brushmaster]

I would much rather see an Ivy Crown sublist.

I'll second that suggestion . Me too ! All they need is a captain and a non-unique foot sergeant .

[jdripley]

What would the sublist SA be? "Need to borrow Armor: A model of this sublist may gain +2 DV by looting the corpse of a fallen enemy with higher DV than it has." "Need to borrow Sword: A model of this sublist may gain +1 MAV by looting the corpse of a fallen enemy with higher MAV than it has."

 

Fits with the poor man's militia idea :P

 

I'm gonna get killed in my sleep by Crusader fans now >.>

[Qwyksilver]

I'm gonna get killed in my sleep by Crusader fans now >.>

 

 

Better hurry up. I hear Snow White calling your name stunty. You'll be late for chores.