Denelspire (1.2)

[Qwyksilver]

Now if we could just figure out why those Templar Knights who become Justicars forget how to fight in formation (i.e., lose Trencher)

 

Who needs those puny Spearmen on Defense when you have the Armor and Shield of the Knight, and the hitting power of the Unforgiven? Your enemies fall before your righteous might, so there is seldom a need to concern yourself with Defense.

 

Not to mention 2 attacks at MAV 6 on Defensive Strike are already nasty enough without adding in another +3 with Trencher.

 

You give up hitting slightly better (Knight with 3 Spearmen using Trencher gets 1 Defensive Strike at MAV 7) in order to hit more often, at a slight disadvantage.

 

I'd rather the two +6's instead of a single +7 most any day.

 

For fluff, the Justicars are so bent on dispensing Justice, they no longer concern themselves with their own protection, relying on their armor, shield, sword and faith to protect them, rather than depending on someone else.

[Sergei]

I would chalk it up to a different fighting style. Knights are trained to fight in formation while the Justicars are use to fighting by them selves.

[vejlin]

It probably requires regular training to stay skilled at formation fighting. Now that they're Justicars they likely have more important things to do with their time than march back and forth in columns

[CrusaderChris]

Sir Broderick got another damage track, warmaster and a raised DV. Yay! I'm happy again, even if I won't be converting as much with the new rules.

[Brushmaster]

Converting !! Who'd bother under the new format ? Who else feels our SA has been nerfed ? Despite all the changes this is the one thing I hate the most that the chances are so slim , why bother having a faction SA ? OK , I'm a dyed in the wool Crusader lover but this ..... Oh , well doesn't mean I won't stop playing them and I've got 7 other factions to use as well , just a little disappointed .

[Qwyksilver]

I'm not a huge fan of Convert as it was in Open Beta myself, but that does not mean this is it. This does not also mean we won't get something else when the SA are all reviewed and reworked that makes up for the change. Let's wait and see. It's 3 months.

 

Let's just remember that when the Faction SA are all going to be reviewed. When the Journel comes out around GenCon-ish (as Emmel indicated), maybe we will see something different, since there will be even more time for us to use this, offer suggestions, test those suggestions, etc. The fact is that the previous incarnation of Mercy was Horribly out of balance. Forcing checks on a Model's last track AND healing them back to full was too much, especially with the new multi track grunts. Something needed to be changed. Is this perfect, maybe not, but that does not also mean that it is permanent.

 

Mercy/Conversion is now on it's 3rd incarnation because people asked for changes. That does not mean a 4th version will never happen.

 

Also remember that the old versions were also in large part due to huge point discrepancies in Crusader Models vs fairly equivalent other Factions, which used to always leave us at a significant model disadvantage. Mercy used to help deal with that. Now, this is not so much an issue. I've actually during Beta testing had Initiative and Model count superiority, which was virutally impossible for us before. Most of the time, we're at a fairly even match, so Mercy did need to be changed some.

 

Let's give this all some time and see how it works out.

 

If anything needs to be changed, IMNSHO, it is the Armor of Faith Faction ability for the Army of Judgement. DV 8.... meh.

 

Only Halbarad and Valandil have a DV lower than 8 on their last track, and there are only 2 other models, Ironraven and Ironspines that have of DV 8 on their last track.

[Storminator]

I've been contemplating a troop of Herne and some War Dogs, that just goes around and Converts stuff. If Isarah had Healer, I'd use her.

 

PS

[Kelcore]

As it stands now, I dislike Convert intensely in that only leader models can do it and it's no longer an opposed roll. And likely won't work as often as one might like (unlike alot of other faction SA'a, like Fear of Undeath, Hunter's Edge, Bane, etc). Even Healing Graces is a crapshoot now (Hospitalier: "Whee! I just healed an enemy model! Welcome back to the land of the living my new brother! Wanna fight for us? No? Hrrrm... *hackity-hackity* Hospitalier: "Ack! I am perished! My DV9 could not save me from my own dumb! I should've just been used to heal up friendly models..." *expires*).

 

Now granted, I'm VERY used to not really having much by way of faction abilities to use (it's hilarious, even when I didn't play against Lord Baasen, somehow I usually got put across the table from a Necropolis player...), but on the rare occasion that I did, Mercy as it stood sometimes left a bad taste in my cake-hole. And the Justice sublist was underdeveloped to say the least. But yeah, Mercy/Conversion, with it being the enormous crapshoot it is? I no likey. Right there with you, Brushmaster.

 

But Qwyk's right, this isn't "the end" of the Mercy/Conversion line. Krueger's Journal will hopefully clear this up. And hopefully make the Justice sublist more appealing.

 

So, I propose that instead of being all "whine/moan" aboot it, we brainstorm here. I said in another thread that I just wish Mercy/Conversion would go away entirely and that the Crusaders be potrayed more like they are in the book. That is: defenders of teh people/smiters of teh eeeevil. I'm still of that opionion. But it's altered slightly. I think Mercy/Conversion/Healing Graces are nerfed enough and would be a fine function of the Devoted of Gianova. And ONLY the Devoted.

 

I'm of the opinion that the Crusader's main, "big" faction ability should have something to do with bravery or inspiration or whatever else in defense of the people of Taltos.

 

Thoughts?

[Qwyksilver]

Crusaders are THE cleric army. Sure, Nerfherders have their big bad Sky Lord, but we have those dirty beribboned Dead in the sheer number of potent Clerics.

 

Our Faction Abilities should be tied into them. And personally, I like the idea of less true abilities, and maybe more specific equipment and spells as our "Faction Ability"

 

We need more Crusader specific and Defensive spells.

Shield of Faith, boosts MD in a 3" AOE, which can be cast defensively

 

In a Crusader Army, Cure spells can be Cast Defensively, provided the Cleric is within 6 inches of the target of a Damage causing spell, or within 6 inches of the center of the AOE of a damage causing spell. I would love to see something like this. It's a nice Clerical Counter to those crazy Mages.

 

SA: Healer can be used Defensively by a Crusader if a Friendly Model they are currently in b2b contact with takes a point of damage from a Defensive Strike. Similar in to Do Your Duty, but instead of passing the damage to a bondslave, the Cleric heals it. Healer still cannot be used on yourself, so this also means you are likely risking that Healer model to being a target of Defensive Strikes.

 

Judgement continues to auto-coup Evil models, and this overcomes Dark Energy. Something has to.

 

Crusader Standards not only allow you to reroll a failed Discipline check, they grant +1 to Dis as well. The Crusaders March with a purpose which will not be thwarted by man nor beast.

 

Heal the Masses: Cure spells can be cast with a 2" AOE, effecting any Friendly Model in the AOE. Cure spells cast in this manner are treated as one Grade higher, and cost an additional 20 points.

 

My Dying Breath: With their dying breath, a Stunned Leader or Elite can drag themself up and seek to slay those responsible for their death. By sacrificing their Tough check and dying, a Crusader Leader or Elite can make a SINGLE melee attack at their last Damage Track, all appropriate modifiers included. This attack will trigger Defensive Strikes.

 

I am your shield: A Crusader Leader or Elite in b2b contact with a Friendly Model that is the target of Ranged attacks can opt to take the attacks themself. The Crusader must declare that he is Shielding his comrade Before any attack rolls are made. The Crusader must take all the Ranged attacks targetting the original target, and is unable to gain the benefits of SA: Deflect for ANY Ranged attacks made at them until the end of the current Activation. (i.e. If the Leader was also the target of Ranged attacks, they cannot use Deflect against those as well).

[CrusaderChris]

To Kelcore: I agree that the main faction ability should have to do with Gerard's mission. Someting fluff based that goes with all the stories about the refugees gathering around Denelspire. I understand why they had to change the Mercy rules. If I was playing another faction I wouldn't want to see my Warlord flub a discipline roll and sign up for the Crusaders. So what if we take the old rules with the contested roll and apply them only to Adepts/Grunts? It fits with the growing masses and keeps the Darkspawn players happy by not allowing Gerard and a couple doggies to recruit Rauthuros.

 

To Qwyk: Bunch of great ideas, keep it up!

[Brushmaster]

I was thinking of a new Faction Ability - "Divine Presence" ( we've already got Sokar is Near) , all clerics gain a +1 to casting for a purely Crusader faction .

What do you think?

Fluff wise - the faithful servants of Aurelus are bestowed with his presence for the duration of the battle , enhancing their clerical abilities . Ok , its better than other clerics but its not the +2 that everyone used to get for friendly targets and they don't suffer as much when facing Nekfsokar .

This would be one example that I'd like to see implimented .

[Qwyksilver]

I'm back, after further thinking.

 

Forward to Victory:

The banners of the Crusader have always been a rally point for the Knights Templar. So long as the pennons fly, they have never wavered in the face of fear. If a Crusader is able to maintain LOS to their troop standard, they automatically succeed on any Discipline checks to make base to base contact with an Enemy Model. LOS is determined using Eye Level measurement from the Crusader's head, to the physical representation of the Standard itself. If the Standard Bearer has been stunned or killed, no Model may have LOS to the Standard until another Crusader has taken up the Standard.

 

Man's best friend:

A Crusader Leader has the option of adding a single Wardog to his Troop at standard cost. This Wardog does not count towards the Leader's troop size, and does not count towards the number of troops allowed for a given Adept Model. A Warlord may choose to field Garr instead of a Wardog, however Garr remains Unique and cannot be fielded elsewhere in the Army.

 

Leader of the Pack:

In an Ivy Crown Sublist, Garr becomes a Unique Sergeant with troop size 3-6/0. All Soldiers in this troop must be Wardogs.