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haldir

Anyone notice tolzar a tad bit short??

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I would not consider the large box-set dragons as a valid comparison to the Blister-pack dragons.  Compare the Grenadier dragons instead to the likes of Nyarthallysk or the Amber Dragon.

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I would not consider the large box-set dragons as a valid comparison to the Blister-pack dragons.  Compare the Grenadier dragons instead to the likes of Nyarthallysk or the Amber Dragon.

Compared to the blister-pack dragons, they are comparable in size. But those Grenadier dragons were the biggest kids on the block when they came out - they were mother huge miniatures, dwarfing even stuff like the Black Prince's Chariot of Doom from Ral Partha or the larger giants. Now, they are not limited edition boxed-set monsters, they are blister pack minis. That's size escalation right there...the fact that Reaper makes still makes dragons that size does not change the fact that dragons that size are not the "big boys" like they used to be.

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Well, over the years, even "25mm" has varied.

 

It depends if you measure from the top of the head to the feet, or from the eyes to the feet.

 

Given WK's work is 32 mm, makes me suspect he uses the 'eye' method.

 

And as ReaperIvy has stated, the Reaper line is NOT made up of "everyone is 6" tall clones". You'll have tall women, and short clerics... ;)

 

-Daniel

I've been measuring from the bottom of the feet to the eyes. If you measure WK's Lord Ironraven to the top of the head he stands at about 38 1/2mm.

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38 1/2mm? He must be hard to shop for.

 

"How much extra is mail in XXL?"

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Lord Ironraven is obviously of pure Numinorrian(sp) descent. Tolkien said those guys were about seven feet tall. (Ducks and hides from JRRT Est. Lawyers in black robes).

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25mm has not been the industry standard for over ten years.  All mini lines I have seen have suffered scale variation.  It's just part of the deal.  

Besides in a small scale you want a little greater scale variation that you have in real life.  One or two milimeter difference may equal roughly three to six inches but that's a barely percievable difference on such a small scale.  So in a situation where the actual scale is close to 28mm equals six foot, which seems closer to industry standard than 25mm, A 30mm fig would be the equilivant of a 6'5" human.  But on the table they look roughly the same height.  It would be very hard to tell the difference between a 28mm mini and a 30mm mini without a ruler.  Also because you are usually looking down on the minis the height difference becomes even harder to notice.  So what Lord Ironraven is the Shaq of the Reaper world.  Guess what.  Shaq is a human too not a half ogre.  He may be head and shoulders above most people but I have met people close to his height and they look huge next to someone in the 5'10" to 6' range and I've met grown men right at the 5' height who look like gnomes next to someone who is 6'10".

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The difference in height doesn't only affect the height of a figure, it also affects body proportions.

 

If a miniature that is 25mm to the top of the head is around 6 feet tall, that is roughly 4.16mm per foot. That makes Lord Ironraven over 9 feet tall. And alot of other figures in the range of 7 to 8 feet tall.

 

Now I'm not saying there shouldn't be height differences. Of course there should. I'm just saying that if 25mm is the base that they are measured at, then how about making some 25mm figures?  ???

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Please don't take this as official word, but you do realize that if the figure mean size is reduced back to a true 25mm, you will lose a great deal of your paintable detail.

 I can see both sides of the scale argument, and both have merit.  As the Reaper that rails the loudest against scale variation, I have my own favorite scale/proportion canon.  But I also have to point out that until cloning is perfected, those things will vary from sculptor to sculptor.

 

Just my $.000002 worth,

 

--Talin

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No doubt, I completely understand the detail problems inherent in small sculpture. In fact, I don't even know what my complaint is. I guess the '25mm Heroic Scale' label sets a standard in my mind, and any deviation conflicts with my mental image of the proper proportions (and variations in proportion) of a human sized figure.

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But Reaper figs are not 25mm.  That have never really been 25mm.  Certainly not American 25mm.  You guys seem to be complaining about a scale that hasn't been standard in over ten years.  

The Warlord figs are clearly 30mm scale which is not far off what everyone else is producing.  Now you can't use your old Partha humans very well against the Warlord, Games Workshop, or Confrontation figs very well but haven't they all died from lead rot yet?

The best thing I ever did was dump most of my old Partha and Grenadier slag into a box and trade it in at ten cents credit each for a bunch of new Reaper stuff.  That was a few years ago and I never regretted it.

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But Reaper figs are not 25mm.  That have never really been 25mm.  Certainly not American 25mm.  You guys seem to be complaining about a scale that hasn't been standard in over ten years.

I'm complaining, if you can call it that, about two thing:

 

1) Reaper minis are billed as 25mm. They are not, so why call them that? They are often tall for 28mm, and mostly seem more like 30mm. Call them what they are, most everyone else does.

 

2) Increasing scale is a problem not just for my old Ral Partha and Grenadier minis (which I collected too carefully and painted too well to trade in for anything, thank you) but also for my minis from other comparies - Euraka, Fortress Figures, GW, WOTC, Foundry, Copplestone, SJG. The Pirates of the Dragonspine Sea are nice, but they are all the tallest pirates I have...and I have over a hundred pirate minis not counting those. Reaper Dwarves are as tall as some humans from other companies, and they do not seem to be getting smaller. Size creep means as each successive mini comes along, more and more of my older minis (and heck, my old Reapers) become effectively smaller and smaller. I am not about to replace all of my minis to scale with Reaper characters...and that makes me less likely to buy Reaper character figures.

 

I am not asking for minis to shrink back down - I recognize this is unrealistic. I also recognize that sculpters will vary in the size of their minis.

 

I am just asking that the real scale be used to describe the minis, and that size creep be reduced. Nevermind Lord Ironraven as Shaq. If nigh-all Reaper minis are going to stand taller than minis from other companies, that is a real problem for people like me who want to use both Reaper and non-Reaper minis.

 

And no, my old minis have not died from lead rot. Preventing lead rot is pretty trivial.

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GW and and WOTC both produce 30mm figs.  The foundry pirates I have are not that much shorter than the Reaper ones.  I don't know about the rest but they are not as large a company as Reaper or GW.  Reaper and GW are easily the leaders in the fantasy miniature industry.  Reaper is pretty much the champ of fantasy RPG minis in production.  Like it or not the big companies set the standards.  

Not only that but 28-30mm scale has been pretty much embraced by the gameing public.  Since GW and Reaper sell better than the 25mm stuff other companies that produce they don't have much reason to change.  

Now I've not seen a major scale increase with Reaper figs.  True some of their new minis have been tall but some have been the same size as most of their old ones and a few of their old ones were pretty tall as well.  

Only some of the dwarves have been overscale not all of them.  

Now the Warlord sculpts do seem to be pretty much a full 30mm in scale but there are still a number of the Dark Heaven that look fine among them.  More that look ok than don't.  

If you have over 100 pirates that you are happy with then why do you need more anyway?  

On the one hand I agree.  They really shouldn't bill Reapers as 25mm scale.  However I sure as heck hope they don't try and go back to 25mm.  Look as the LOTR slag that GW did in 25mm for who knows what reason.  It just doesn't hold up to the quality that the same sculptors can do in 28-30mm.

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Like it or not the big companies set the standards.  

 

I have no problem with that; I have a problem with the standard being "Heroic 25mm" when there is nothing "25mm" about it. I have no problem with minis being 28mm or 30mm, if they remain 28mm or 30mm and do not creep up in size, and if they are actually labeled that way. What is the benefit exactly of calling them 25mm if no one else calls their 28mm minis 25mm?

 

If you have over 100 pirates that you are happy with then why do you need more anyway?  

 

Come on. Are you seriously telling me to stop buying miniatures after I reach a certain number? 100 pirates may seem like a lot, but not if you want to play a big pirate battle game with 5-6 people, each with their own crew of pirates. In fact, 100 is a little small for that. I actually need about 135-150 to do what my gamers and I really want to do with them.

 

But compared to my Foundry, Eureka, and who knows who else (Ral Partha and Old Glory probably, Grenadier certainly) pirates the Dragonspine Sea guys are a bit too tall. Not enough to be a real problem, but it is a worrying trend. I do not want to be collecting 35mm and 40mm minis five years from now....and having someone tell me I should sell my old Reapers and Foundries and what-have-you on eBay and get with the program because the bigger guys have more detail.

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