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Ranger SA


Stubbdog
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Based on 2-3 threads that mention models with Ranger and their worth, I figured I would start this thread.

 

Ranger...

 

Allows one time in the beginning of the game a free single move. No attack, no invoke. Just move. And only one time, no other later bonus moves.

 

Now, I know I cant ask about their calculation formulas. So, can only discuss based on speculation.

 

So, with that its gonna be a bit sporadic in thought process, so forgive me ahead of time...

 

 

I know that at least in terms of lower end models (Khamsin rangers, Nagendra rangers, etc...) it seems that Ranger SA cost roughly 5-6 points. I have no idea if it is a sliding scale type of point cost for larger or faster models.

 

Overall my view of Ranger is that it can be extremely affective and worth the points on anything that has pre altered MOV >= 10. That is they have a MOV 10 before adding any SAs.

 

IF you dont have the higher movement, then I feel that Ranger is actually a hinderance and a point sink.

 

At first I was going to rule in favor of the ranger archers. But, then I started thinking. Maybe for crossbows since they have a shorter range. But, all regular arches have a range of 24 or higher, which means that on a regular sized 4x4 table with the regular 12x24 deploy, unless the opponent lines up on the back edge of that deploy area, most archers should be able to move up 6 inches and fire or even sit still and fire.

 

If you dont have any ranged attack and you dont move at a high speed, then what good does ranger do for you? Yes, it gets you a little closer to the enemy... big whoop. I like the concept, but not at 5-6+ points per model.

 

Then again, another possible observation... Just about every elf has ranger, and yet their point costs are very low. So, how is that possible? Does ranger cost different for different factions?

 

Ok, I got it started, who else has on opinion?

 

Who actually uses their ranger moves with models with low to regular MOV values with effective results?

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The only model I have ever played even somewhat regularly with Ranger was the Griffon. I almost always tried to save him for last if at all possible. Essentially forcing my opponent to deploy that mage or cleric (TARGET SIGHTED SIR!! :lol: ) before my Griffon hits the table. Then, hell yes I use my Ranger move. If I'm lucky, I might even get a charge in as well! That's 26 inches, while still being able to attack. Yes, my Griffon will most likely get swarmed and killed, but if I can take out that mage, and maybe a couple grunts on defensive strikes, it's well worth it to me. I've done it before and won quite handily. I guess my opponent had a ton of points invested in the mage and once gone, poof! Army morale disappears. :devil:

 

Wild Bill :blues:

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I know that at least in terms of lower end models (Khamsin rangers, Nagendra rangers, etc...) it seems that Ranger SA cost roughly 5-6 points. I have no idea if it is a sliding scale type of point cost for larger or faster models.

My calculations show that Ranger costs 3 points on single track soldier models. Don't know about other kinds of models.

 

I see the Ranger SA used on a regular basis by Vale Archers to do minor repositioning if they were forced to deploy before their preferred "targets" - usually to set up a near exact 30" marksman shot on the first activation (might have deployed too close or too far away.)

 

Rich

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Gurm (the Orgre Hunter) has Ranger and Braug (the Ogre) does not. Braug has a Dis of 5, a MAV of 4 and a DV of 12. Gurm has Bloodlust/2, Ranger, Warmaster, a Dis of 6, a MAV of 3, and a DV of 11. Both have 3 tracks, Reach, and Tough/2.

 

Gurm, at 78 points, is now 10 points higher than Braug in cost (who is 68 points).

 

As much as I like Gurm's sculpt and what I did for his paint job,, I think that I'm going to field only Braugs for Ogres from now on. The extra increase in cost and the weaker stats for Gurm (though he has Warmaster and Ranger) just doesn't seem worth it. Maybe if Gurm was in a heavily wooded board, he'd be worth it (over Braug), but other than that, doesn't seem so.

 

As Stubdog said, I think that Ranger is more useful for faster models and for models with ranged attacks.

 

Ron

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Ranger...

 

Allows one time in the beginning of the game a free single move. No attack, no invoke. Just move. And only one time, no other later bonus moves.

Keep in mind Ranger also allows a Model to treat Heavy Woods (and another terrain type I think) as Light Woods. I don't have my book in front of me at the moment. Thereby reducing or eliminating movement penalties.

 

Then again, another possible observation... Just about every elf has ranger, and yet their point costs are very low. So, how is that possible? Does ranger cost different for different factions?

I think the low point costs on Elven Models are primarily due to their low DV's.

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Gurm (the Orgre Hunter) has Ranger and Braug (the Ogre) does not. Braug has a Dis of 5, a MAV of 4 and a DV of 12. Gurm has Bloodlust/2, Ranger, Warmaster, a Dis of 6, a MAV of 3, and a DV of 11. Both have 3 tracks, Reach, and Tough/2.

 

Gurm, at 78 points, is now 10 points higher than Braug in cost (who is 68 points).

 

As much as I like Gurm's sculpt and what I did for his paint job,, I think that I'm going to field only Braugs for Ogres from now on. The extra increase in cost and the weaker stats for Gurm (though he has Warmaster and Ranger) just doesn't seem worth it. Maybe if Gurm was in a heavily wooded board, he'd be worth it (over Braug), but other than that, doesn't seem so.

 

As Stubdog said, I think that Ranger is more useful for faster models and for models with ranged attacks.

 

Ron

 

Warmaster is by far what is pushing up the cost of Braug as opposed to Ranger in this case I believe, it is pretty clearly a very powerful ability with a premium points cost.

 

I'm not against Ranger on fairly low mov models, it can be useful, but I do think the cost of Ranger should be tied directly to the movement rate and number of damage tracks a model has. I'm sure it is, but just to what degree I'm not sure. It doesn't really seem all that cost effective.

 

THere are quite a number of models I feel are overpriced because of Ranger:

Acacia (although this likely comes more from Blazer, Ranger contributes to her outragious cost)

Ivy Crown Archers

Nagendra Rangers

Goblin Rangers (for 5 more points I could buy two Goblins!)

 

I might even consider models like Deathseekers and Bladesisters as well.

 

I dunno, just thoughts.

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I find ranger to be a bit underpriced.

 

But, I don't play games in the "whoever kills the most wins" type (and I have noticed that most of the discussions on the boards assume this as the default scenario type), I play scenarios with other goals. And that extra free move at the beginnning of the game can really help get to an objective counter or such.

 

 

I expect that the real value is in how you use the rules and the minis - in the right circumstances, with the right tactics it can be invaluable. The rest of the time its points that go to waste.

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I keep wondering if 360 is pushing the Nagendra's up alot in points cost as well, both they and the Longstrikers seem to be fairly expensive, and in the case of the Long Strikers the only thing it can really be attributed to is 360 (comparing them to the nearly identicle statistic block, save for special abilities, of the Ivy Crown Skirmishers).

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Well, compare to the Khamsin Dervish, which also has 360. Very similar stats, slight change of other SA's (Marshwalker for Bloodlust/2), one point more expensive.

 

Similarly, the Crusader Battle Nun Novitiate has pretty much identical stats, but trades all the SAs (including 360) for Tough/2 and a point of MD... and only costs 30. Elven Deathseekers get similar stats with Bloodlust, Tough/2, Ranger, and Fearless, and a point less DV, for 34.

 

If Ranger is 3, and Marshwalker is ~ 1, that means 360 is worth ~ 4, on these models.

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