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an odd question


japenny_902
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I have a wierd question for the pros here.

 

What does it look like when the pigment falls out of the paint on brush. It's with a competitors paint, vallejo game color but I've had it before I discovered reaper. When I thin it any, after about 5 seconds there are a bunch of little white colored bits all through the hairs of the brush. It's doing it with several colors, blues and reds, and I'm only using water to thin it. I have an agitator in the bottle and shook the living daylights out of the bottle.

 

Am I doing something wrong, or is this paint known for separating. Is model color any different?

 

James

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Vallejo is known for separating after thinning (both lines do this) but usually you would need to thin it quite a bit to get the results you're describing...how much water would you say you're adding? And how long is the paint on the brush before you see the white bits?

 

It almost sounds like you're getting vinyl base separation on the brush...are the white bits gooey or gritty, can you tell?

 

--Anne

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I would say I'm thinning it at least 2:1 paint to water. And the bits were small enough to look gritty, but I honestly couldn't tell. It is white colored like the goop that forms in a bottle that hasn't been shaken in a few days. It takes about 5 or 6 seconds for it to appear, it's quicker if there is less paint on the brush. And it also gets sped along if I'm applying the color to the mini. Which is why I asked if it was separating from the binder because I thought that if there was say only a half full brush then the rest of the pigment was getting sucked up the brush by capilliary action and it was leaving the base on "top" of the hairs.

 

Does that make sense?

 

James

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I thought that I'd take a picture of the effect I'm talking about. Note that the blue underneith is not the pool that I picked the paint up from, I didn't realize that i was photographing over dry blue paint ::D: . This is a VGC blue and it's thinned around 2:1 water to paint.

 

I think you might be able to see what I mean from the pic.

post-2868-1156464564_thumb.jpg

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First off, terminology...the stuff you're talking about would probably be the base, rather than the binder. ::): The paint base is made of (in Vallejo's case) a vinyl-acrylic blend, heavy on the vinyl. I'm guessing that the little bits you're getting in your brush are indeed vinyl particles globbing up and falling out of solution for some reason. This is weird because in the past I've only seen this in paint I've excessively thinned, and 2:1 is not excessive...I would guess this would be more prevalent the older the paint is. Have you had the paint for long? I wonder if Vallejo replaces defective bottles of paint? I haven't used Vallejo since I created Master Series but I'll apply my limited paint chemistry knowledge to the problem and try to figure out if there's a way to stop it other than replacing the paint.

 

Does the same problem happen when you use the paint thicker or thinner than 2:1?

 

--Anne

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Several different bottles are doing this... And the problem just started after using them previously without any problem?

 

If adding water is the cause then this will happen on the palette. Otherwise your brush must be contaminated with something causing this reaction.

 

Or the water is contaminated...have you tried distilled water?

 

Does unthinned paint look OK when dried? "Floating" is a problem where one pigment separates from the others, making the color look wrong.

 

Or maybe the paint has just plain gotten old & gone bad.

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The pic shows thinned paint with distilled water only. And it does it with brushes of all age and condition. My series 7 are always cleaned with masters brush cleaner, so they should be okay. The brush in my pic is a mixing one, but even that I clean all of the time.

 

After about a minute the paint on the pallette looks separated, but not chunky like on the brush more like an even marbelling pattern of white streaks and the color gets a little darker. I just assume that I have some bad bottles. They were all bought from the same guy on the same day. I just hope that all of the people in the city that bought from him don't have bad paint.

 

I would also like to thank people for their responses. I really appreciate it a lot. Everyone is so nice

 

::D:

 

James

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The pic shows thinned paint with distilled water only. And it does it with brushes of all age and condition. My series 7 are always cleaned with masters brush cleaner, so they should be okay. The brush in my pic is a mixing one, but even that I clean all of the time.

 

After about a minute the paint on the pallette looks separated, but not chunky like on the brush more like an even marbelling pattern of white streaks and the color gets a little darker. I just assume that I have some bad bottles. They were all bought from the same guy on the same day. I just hope that all of the people in the city that bought from him don't have bad paint.

 

I would also like to thank people for their responses. I really appreciate it a lot. Everyone is so nice

 

::D:

 

James

 

I've had this a few times but I think it was because I was mixing on top of dried paint. I use a wet pallet and the pallet tends to collect water into pools over paint (usually after being stored for a day or two). I usually think the paint is OK and I'll stir it up hoping I can pick up where I left off last session. I few times I start to see what I think is silvering but it turns out to be specks of white.

Japenny, are you by any chance mixing over dried paint?

 

Thanks

AWhang

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I've tried a flat pallette, my wet pallette with a new parchment paper, and a new well in a dimple pallette. All the same. in the case of the pic, it was on top of old paint actually. I never thought of that. But my wet pallette does it too. Ah well.... I'll just have to buy some new paint, which is always a treat ::D:

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The picture above looks like you've got blue over metallic paints, and you've got re-awakened metallic flecks in the brush.

 

Do you often go back and forth between regular and metallic paints without changing your water? Because metallic bits will get into your brush when you clean it out if your water hasn't been changed.

 

Personally, if I'm using metallics on a model, I do them all at once, and change my water out afterwards.

 

/ali

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The agitator in this bottle is a hematite bead, which isn't reactive to water as far as I know because it's basically a polished rock that they find in water anyway. I also have them in some other bottles that don't do it. And as well the Bloddy red color which does it just as bad as that blue has a stainless steel nut in it. I bought both colors at the same time from the same place here in Halifax.

 

Oh and the pool in the picture isn't whre I got the paint on the brush from, I got the paint in that pic from a pool that was mixed over non metallic paint. And it does it no matter what pallette option I try.

 

It's probably just bad paint. This is the only problem with "bad" paint that I've had in the 18 months that I've been painting so I don't think I'm doing too bad :;):

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What did you use for an agitator? If it's not inert, it could be oxidizing into the little flakes. I had this happen once.

 

Is pewter inert? I am using a chunk of flash from one of the figures as an agitator in my gunk mix...should I be worried? :unsure:

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