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Adjusting to masters series paints


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I keep hearing how different MSPs are to paint with. What is the difference in the properties as far as painting with them.

 

I have read the posts about the difference in their actual makeup (they have flo-improver already in them, and the pigment is ground finer), as well as how they are more opaque then GW crap er; paints.

 

But what is so different about them as far as applying paint to metal. Do they require less flo improver than other paints? I usually go with something close to Jen Haleys mix-around two parts flow improver, one and a half part slow dry, and two to three parts water.

 

Also since there are both a MSP Flo improver and Slo dry, should I use these rather than the Liquitex I currently use?

 

Gary

 

-Still confused by this whole putting of pigments suspended in a liquid medium onto small non-ferrous metal castings of anthropomorphic fantasy caricatures (what on this planet you call painting miniatures).

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I find there's not that much a difference in using them, compared to regular paints. I still thin them, with flow inprover in the mix too (a little more won't hurt). One very positive thing about them I found is that even after thinning they still maintain good coverage. With GW paints I would often have to layer several coats; with MSP I can get away with one or two coats. Definitely an advantage there...

 

Damon.

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The only thing I find I have to watch out for with MSP is air bubbles, especially with liner. But they're easily taken care of by blowing on them. Really though you'd use them like any other paint. Really you can use them with just straight water. If you don't have some, find someone who does and try them out.

 

I use liquitex flow improver in a 10% solution with MSPs about 2:1 paint:gunk and haven't had any issues.

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Interesting, I've actually had fewer air bubble problems with the MSP than with Pro Paints or Adikolor, the two brands I used most extensively before switching. However, I also switched over to mainly using just flow improver and only using retarder/slo-dri when I really need it, so I"m not sure if maybe some of my bubbling problems were from additives (also a theory since I'm pretty sure Adikolors have retarder 'built in'.)

 

I did find I had a bit of a transition phase with the MSP, maybe 2-3 minis worth at most. Mainly I think it had to do with thinning consistencies. They have a slightly thicker/creamier feel, but at the same time, can thin down extensively and maintain cohesion. So my layers on the first couple of minis didn't have quite enough water and looked a little streakier than I was achieving before with other paints and since with MSPs. Even then, to large part this was easily correctible with glazes and going back in with transition layers and such.

 

The only other transition things I can really think of off-hand is that probably in part because of how well the MSP thin down, I've increased my use of glazes a fair bit. Also some of the paints, dark paints from earlier batches in particular, can dry a little satin, but if I find that distracting for figuring out my highlights and shades, I just thin a bit of MSP sealer and seal over the satin section and I can see what I need to see just fine.

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"I have read the posts about the difference in their actual makeup (they have flo-improver already in them, and the pigment is ground finer), as well as how they are more opaque then GW crap er; paints."

 

Having used (and STILL using) both GW and MSP's I have to say that colors in both ranges exibit the need to apply several coats to achieve full coverage (and yes I shake the living daylights out of the MSP so I know the components are getting mixed adequately). There are colors in the GW range that I prefer over the equivilent MSP...it's not meant as a condemnation...just a preference...:)

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Well, to compare to Vallejo Model Colour (VMC) Masters are much more flowable. Coverage with certain RMS colours is not quite as good but also they're not as gritty as VMC.

 

This bit is difficult to say succinctly: with RMS I find it easier to manage transparency properly (to the level of my painting skill anyway, which is average). They seem to have a broader range between "too opaque" and "I'm dropping pigment and behaving like crud".

 

With the Clear Brights, I expect I will have no further use for my only surviving GW paints- oh wait, they'd dried out in the bottle anyway, the bastards- but I do have about three VMC colours that I may be keeping.

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Smokingwreckage said "GW paints- oh wait, they'd dried out in the bottle anyway, the bastards- but I do have about three VMC colours that I may be keeping."

 

I live in a rather dry climate and I have had few GW paints dry out to the point of uselessness. For those who do have that problem I can only suggest what I have done.

I see the main problem with them is not the chemical formula of the paints themselve but the bottle that GW in their infinite wisdom chose to sell them in. I apply a thin layer of vaseline to the threads of the bottle the moment I get them home. This helps prevent the paint from accumulating and drying on the threads and preventing a good seal between the bottle and cap. I have had the same set of GW since it was first released. The new flip cap has changed them somewhat but not much...

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one thing I noticed when I switched to RMS paints was that I needed to cut back on my flow improver to water ratio in favor of more water because some of the MSPs can get shiney quickly with too much gunk.

 

I just recently got the reaper flow improver. Evidently you can use it out of the bottle, but it seems like i'd go through it too quickly that way, so I have about 10% flow improver to water instead. Works well for me =)

 

/ali

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MSPs allow me to cheat. Over white primer, you can get the right thinning consistency and just basecoat/wash. If you do it right, they self-highlight. Here's an example of where I did that:

MantaRay.thumb.jpg

 

That's one coat of paint. There's no highlighting on that at all. These paints are great!

 

That's cool, Froggie. When I teach painting, I tell people that they've got the right consistency for a base coat if if flows on with little effort and they can begin to see the shadows and highlights from the first coat. After that I have them add another basecoat, then wash and finish with drybrushing. That's for a basic painting class.

 

The MSPs make it easy to teach this method, since they thin pretty well with plain water.

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But what is so different about them as far as applying paint to metal. Do they require less flo improver than other paints? I usually go with something close to Jen Haleys mix-around two parts flow improver, one and a half part slow dry, and two to three parts water.

 

I don't think anything on my website is valid anymore. ::P: With the MSPs, I generally only add flow improver when I'm doing fine detail work. What's already in the paint is enough for most purposes. The MSP flow improver is very much like my favorite Winsor & Newton's, just more dilute.

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Never having been infected by GW, I'm not going to compare anything to their paints.

 

The thing that bugs me about MSP is that it won't give me an opaque coat. If I use it straight out of the bottle it dries up really fast; but if I add anything at all to it to retard the drying it becomes translucent.

 

IMO they may have gone too far in making it very matte, and consequently it dries up too quickly. And maybe has adhesion problems, at least until very dry. I'm finding that it is rubbing off the boots of my cavalry riders while I'm painting them because of handling and rubbing on the table when they are set down. To a greater extent than Ral Partha paint does so, which is my basis of comparison.

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Compared to GW though, the MSPs stand up much better to rubbing off. I'm horrible at remembering not to handle my minis until they're clear coated and have had minimal issues with my CAV models losing paint. If it does rub off it's just a little touch up job. Once they're coated though, I've had zero problems other than those associated with being dropped, packed poorly for a trip, or the kids getting to them. (for reference, I do a couple layers of Future floor finish for a hard shell then Krylon matte sealer until matte)

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