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Are the big guys dead?


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I have a slightly different take on this. Im english and therefore dont tourney play. i also like to play heroes/ big guys just cause of fluff, looks , showin off a good paint job etc. So me and my regular opponents have an agreement that if we both want2 field expensive stuff in smaller games we just set a seperate pts pool that cant b used 4 troops and then our expensive(poor value?) stuff kinda balances. Only been playin a coupla months and already used most of the fun DS stuff a coupla times; eg Rauth, witch queen, nasithe, guros even Ashakia and Aundine and opponents played there biggies2. just thought id say there are always options in friendly play at least ::):

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plus if you play a regular list all the time, that might be all well and good for a little while, whilst you learn how to play with it. But, remember your opponent is learning how to play against it too.

 

Its always fun to throw in something completely different sometimes just for the heck of it to keep your regular opponents guessing.

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I think it also depends upon the scenario played. In the wide open spaces of the great outdoors, it is much easier for a mob to envelop the enemy. If the table features defensible choke points, then the big guys just need to worry about the rule of 10. What makes numbers work is the O(n^2) progression of the support bonuses:

 

1 model = +0 MAV

2 models = +2 MAV

3 models = +6 MAV

4 models = +12 MAV

5 models = +20 MAV

6 models = +30 MAV

 

Rich

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I don't know if anyone can relate to this, but it's how I use my larger models. Has anyone played Warcraft 3?

 

In that game you build an army and you get Heros, they are much stronger than normal grunts, but when outnumbered they die quickly. The key is to allow them to blend in. Keep them with some support and watch them eat up some models.

Of course keeping a solo together with their support is difficult because their stats are usually very unique. So it turns into a sort of risk versus reward thing. Risk that he gets cut off from others and is ganged up on and killed easily... Reward, he kills a large number of models and takes many attacks that miss him, but would have hit and killed weaker units...

 

I notice alot of newer players do shy away from the big guys because they think it's going to destroy 300+ points. It's a mentality that comes from games like 40k and Warmachine where your leader can turn the entire battle. It's an entire different story in warlord.

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My biggest problem with big guys is, I believe you have to avoid leading the attack with them, their activations are independent therefore they are difficult to support unless you luck out and get 2 or 3 activations in a row.

 

Probably the best way to deal with this is fight the urge to race ahead with them (often they have very high movement) and let your soldier models lock the enemy into place, this way you have less chance of getting mobbed. One just needs to remember to keep lanes so you Big Gun can get to the enemy.

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I've used the Guardian Beast of Aurellius (187) with mixed success in 1000-1500 pt armies. He tends to be an arrow magnet, but if he hits melee in good health he dominates.

The Hound of Judgement (160) however has become a must have unit for me.

I've used the Guardian Angel (265) 3 times with marginal success. Only once has it ever survived to kill more points than it's worth and even then it barely broke even.

Sir Damon (211) - I've only used him twice in 1500 pt games but he was worth his money both times.

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I find if I use a large or huge base model by itself it gets annihilated pretty quick regardless of point cost. I've also found that when using the heavy hitters that cost a fortune I either gotta bring more than one and work them in tandem and/or use some grunts from another troop to protect their flanks so they don't get surrounded. It's the only way for me to get my points worth out of them usually.

 

If I'm doing freelance I like fielding the Guardian Beast alongside the Dark Maiden, then follow them up with a hospitalier or two and maybe a handful of grunts to protect their flanks if possible. As long as I can keep my beast and maiden fairly close together I haven't had to worry about them getting moshed.

 

Regardless what I do, I never use a 200+ model by itself unless I'm intentionally using it as a sacrifical lamb.

 

just M.T.C.

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Another factor to consider about using the big guys is that their special abilities usually make them oriented toward specific tasks. The hill giant is great for taking on units trying to mob him. Others are good for hitting an enemy leader from behind once other troops tie him up. If used intelligently and with proper support, I think the big fellas are useful. And then once they are wounded, let the enemy swarm and kill it. Once it falls you drop a firestorm onto the body.........

 

Castlebuilder

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Really depends on what sort of time frame you want to play in, big games are fun, but require alot more models. Brushmaster and I really only have the opportunity to play eachother in that sort of game, whereas we have several other opponents to play smaller games. Which is likely why we have a fairly low opinion of Large and expensive creatures, plus we really don't have much experience with the as a result, so they get flogged when we use them.

 

I really prefer smaller games for 1 major reason, smaller games let me get more games in on the reare occassion I get to play these days.

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Got to see some big models in action yesterday, as Qwyk came over for some 1501 games.

 

We both went for a "what models I want to play with" approach. I took Matisse, Ym, Balthon, Andras, Kevis, and Bile the Wyvern. That left me with about 15 soldier models. :B): Qwyk brought Kiakara, Gagaluk (the fighter hero, whatever his name is...), Kakurgh, Lunk, and the Hill Giant. He had about 20 soldier models.

 

I conceded the first one in about 15 minutes. Balthon had 2 hits, Matisse 3, Ym was dead, and the Wyvern had 3 hits. Qwyk rolled like a god. I had killed 2 Berzerkers. The quickest, sickest beatdown I have ever received.

 

The second game was an actual fight! I started with Balthon behind the building this time, so I got to teleport Matisse into Lunk, where he proceeded to kill Lunk, Kakurgh, and half the soldiers in Kak's troop before he got shot to pieces.

 

The Wyvern flew into Gagaluk, and killed him 3 times. Between Balthon and Kevis, I kept healing the Wyvern, and Kiakara healed up Gag and the Hill Giant when he came to trade blows. I had to kill the Hill Giant 3 times too. In the middle of all that I got the Wyvern to base Kiakara, but she ran away. Then I teleported Ym into her, and between him and a pair of Warriors they dropped her. The second Teleport really surprised Qwyk.

 

Before Lunk died he threw down one of the best Lightning Bolts ever, catching 7 models. Only he missed 3 of them with bad dice. Qwyk also started the game with hot Tough checks, pulling up half the soldier models I killed, as well as the previously mentioned HG and Gag. About halfway thru his Tough checks evened out, and he didn't make many in the last third of the game.

 

I had 4 soldier models at the end of the game, and none of my 1000 points worth of heroes. Fantastic fun.

 

BTW, I had 21 models at 1501, and Qwyk had something like 26-27. You don't really need giant armies to play high point games.

 

PS

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Yeah, last night was a lot of fun. I wanted to play a game with the Hill Giant, because I finally have one assembled and painted, thanks to Kelcore and eBay. ^_^

 

That first game, I almost feel guilty about. It was disgusting just how good my dice were. It seemed like everytime I needed a 9+ I got it.

 

The second battle was far more balanced. Balthon's second teleport definitely surprised me, moreso because he made the damn thing on his last track. <_< Poison is a very unpleasant special ability to deal with. Fortunately any sort of healing removes the token, but Pete made it a point to destroy Kiakara and Lunk as soon as possible.

 

And that Lightning Bolt. Oh man it would have been a beautiful thing, if the dice didn't desert me right when I needed them. I only needed to roll 4's or better, and managed to drop a pair of 1's, a 2 and a 3 in 7 rolls. I still killed a Phalanx and Xbow and put a wound on Andras, so it was cost effective, but oh it could have been so glorious.

 

Having our heavy weights in the game, slugging it out was a blast. It was funny how our builds were very similar in design, even though we had worked them at home before meeting.

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Sounds like a pretty good game (the second one anyway).

 

More than the big monsters, I think what is missing from our games being that we play relatively small ones is any sort of impressive amount of magic being hurled around. Bandages and Bless spells are some of the only spells we routinely cast. I can't remember the last time I plopped a Mage down ont he field. Oh wait, yes I do...Yagun, who failed 6 of 7 spellcasting attempts and made me swaer off Mages for a while, bloody Ogre failed 4 while he was on his 1st damage track, and made the only one of the game while he was on his last, curses...anyway, maybe time to try again.

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Lunk with a Fireball and 2 Life Transfers is a staple of many of my 1000 point builds. Although that's a topic for another thread ^_^

 

Not only did we both have some big honking solos, we also brought along some big Heroes too.

Don't forget, there's some good points to spend in the Elites as well. It doesn't HAVE to be a Solo Big Guy.

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Lunk with a Fireball and 2 Life Transfers is a staple of many of my 1000 point builds. Although that's a topic for another thread ^_^

 

Not only did we both have some big honking solos, we also brought along some big Heroes too.

Don't forget, there's some good points to spend in the Elites as well. It doesn't HAVE to be a Solo Big Guy.

 

 

I've got no problems laying down bigger points on Elites, I routinely field Halbarad beefed up to nearly 200 points with GMA, 2 Hold Spells, and 2 Bandages, and Sir Dauron. With Elites I find higher point units much more viable as they act in tandem with Soldiers Leaders and other Elites.

 

Taking that Hill Giant Scares the Heck out of me, I've seen him work well only on 1 occassion...but boy do I love the model. It is on my short list of 'What to paint next?' for Warlord.

 

Trying to stop buying and start painting.

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