Overlords Book?

[spiritual_exorcist]

I hate to beat a dead horse, and I know most of the work is probably going towards getting CAV2 released, but is the Overlords book going to get released in the near future(withint he next month)?

 

I fully expect the 'Soon' response, but in Reaper terms that seems to mean 2-6 months in the future. So soon really means, in that distant future.

 

I've got money to burn on Overlords models right now, but i'm not buying the models until the deluxe starter comes out, and that won't come out until after the book comes out.

 

I had thought this thing was slated for a August release, but maybe I was mistaken (much like CAV2).

 

And what happened to the notion of getting 1 faction book every 2-3 months? That seems to really have been thrown off kilter these days. I can only speculate, but it looks like the Reaper Peeps have pretty full plates these days, with everyone multitasking on various jobs. Would be nice if Reaper put together a games development/writing team that didn't have to devote 80% of their time to other tasks.

 

I know Reaper is a mini company first, but I know I'm not the only one waiting to see the faction book come out before I buy the Overlords, the number of changes being made to troop types and organisation and such simply means I can't afford to invest in an army until I see how it is set up in the faciton book. You can't sell me on the Overlord minis until I see how many of what I can take in my force, and what will be included in the Deluxe faction box. Not because I don't intend to buy a number of Overlord minis, but simply because I refuse to buy minis I won't be able to use, so I want to see the factions and sub-factions first.

 

And while I'm ranting, whose idea was it to insert the Mercenary faction book into the scheduele, is anyone else peeved that already established factions are going to have to wait many more months in addition to the already long period for their books because Reaper has decided to inject Mercs into the lineup. Sure Lupines, Orba, Pirates, and Razig are alright, but Dwarves, Elves, Reptus, and Darkspawn are much better.

[Emmel Eitch]

I had thought this thing was slated for a August release, but maybe I was mistaken (much like CAV2).

Well, sometimes our "best guesses" are off, which is why we try to avoid answering "when is (x) coming out" questions, until we know for sure. However, we SHOULD have the overlords book out in the next month or so.

[Steven Page]

SE, the mercenaries have always been a "legitimate" faction, just not the people PLAYING mercs......at least that's what I'm told.

 

I too eagerly await the Overlord book, but understand the verities of game publishing. We'll "get it, when we get it". Small companies just can't "load up" on help to put a big push on, and still turn a profit. Wish it weren't so....

[spiritual_exorcist]

I agree the Mercs were always a faction. And looking at the previous post I probably sound overly negative. The Merc Book just didn't ever seem to pop up onto the Radar until we suddenly got told it was superceding the Dwarf book as the next faction supplement.

 

And while I'm aware Reaper is a dedicated miniature maker, if they are going to keep themselves competative and make money through miniature games, not just miniatures themselves, but games marketed to support their miniature lines and sell additional minaitures Reaper needs to be accountable to their player base. It might be easier said then done that Reaper needs to dedicate more man power to their production of Warlord, but it doesn't mean that it isn't still the case. The current support and production of both CAV2 and Warlord seems half-hearted from a fans perspective. I know the people at Reaper are working hard, and I don't doubt this in the least, but end results still give the impression that Reaper as a company isn't all that concerned about the production of their games system. If they want to keep their foot in the door they need to change this attitude, whether it means hiring another staff member or two, relying more on their fan base and playtesters to get more involved with actual production, or somehow freeing up more time in house for those currently involved in games production to dedicate more time to writing and development, rather than sculpting, casting, painting etc.

 

I'll wait as long as it takes for the Overlords book, but I doubt everyone will keep waiting. And until such time as the book comes out, Reaper will fail to acheive their true potential in sales of the related miniatures. Selling miniatures means money, and publishing the Overlords book means selling alot more miniatures.

 

I appreciate the response EE, I very much look forward to the Overlords book so I can continue to support Reaper as a miniature manufacturer and games producer.

[Gus Landt]

I would just like to point out that Reaper has maintained an extremely consistent schedule for Faction books.

They come out every 4 months like clockwork, and the Overlords will be no exception.

 

Necropolis - June 2005

Reven - October 2005

Crusaders - Feb 2006

Nefsokar - June 2006

Overlords - October (most likely) 2006

 

Sure their original hope, before any faction books were out, was to do one every 2-3 months, but like you can see above, you can't fault them for an inconsistent schedule, and 4 months between books isn't too long IMHO.

[spiritual_exorcist]

THanks for the info Gus, it is a bit enlightening. I'd still like to see them hit the target Mark of 1 every 2 months they originally aspired to, and have re-iterated on a few occassions. I hadn't realised that they have been that consistent though, so I appreciate the info.

 

3 books a year is just barely enough to keep the game chugging along, but it is a tough wait for those still without factions books who have to wait another 2 years. The injection of the Merc book into the lineup means people will have their books pushed backed another 4 months. Might not seems like much, but it will peeve some off. I suppose you can't make everyone happy all of the time, but I still find it wierd that the Merc book wasn't slated for the end of the run.

[jdripley]

Maybe this isn't a fair comparison.. and I sure as anything don't have a clue about production schedules and what goes into all of this. But here's my take. Blizzard, one of the more popular/successful/whatever game companies consistantly misses production deadlines. Blizzard realizes that they are in the business of making a quality game. They are not in the business of meeting production deadlines. Yes, hitting deadlines is nice.. but I think it's a "first things first" sort of mentality, and for Blizzard it works. I don't think Reaper should be knocked for having their books come out slower than anticipated. After all, situations like this never really happen:

"hello?"

"hi, Reaper, this is your faction book author. I just called to let you know that today my family decided to give me loads of free time, and inspiration hit, and, well, I got the book done 3 months early!"

On the other hand, situations like this happen ALL the time!:

"hello?"

"hi, Reaper, this is your faction book author. I just called to let you know that today my son came down with the flu, and my car broke down, and the toilet's leaking, and..."

 

I think you get the point ;)

People are people and life takes more time than we think it will. Cut some slack and enjoy the quality products Reaper puts out, and be grateful they don't rush to meet the deadline and you get an Overlord's book with shoddy rules and boring fluff.

 

my pair of pennies.

[spiritual_exorcist]

Ok, I'm probably digging myself into a deeper hole...

 

If not meeting deadlines, or having a production scheduele that keeps your target audience attentive and as such costs you players for your game, and thereby costs you sales of your miniatures, then we're talking about lost revenue, that's the cost of 'Real Life'.

 

As far as quality product, I'm sorry, I've only got the first three faction books, and two of them missed the mark on quality by a large margin. They are clearly being produced by people who arn't professional writers. I don't claim to be able to do any better, but then again I'm not attempting to publish anything and sell it to the gaming community. If you are stating that Reaper is taking it's time to publish near flawless material, all I have to do is point to the material and cry foul; flawless it is not. The fluff hasn't been just boring, it has failed to capture the imagination, and create a definate feel for the army (The exception to a degree has been the Crusader book, which was far better than the others). And as far as shoddy rules are concerned, while no system is without it's share of Erratta, Reapers ruleset it supposed to be simple, yet explanations of various rules have been so limited of vague in many cases that the number of pages of FAQ are close to that of the actual rules in print.

 

I'm not buying these books for the first 20-25 pages, I'm buying them for the last 10-15. And since I can get the datacards online (And the datacards of the first 3 faction books are largely changed), I'm really paying only for the last 5-7 page. The Faction/sub-faction abilities, New Spells, New Special abilities and New Equipment. That's it.

 

I understand that other people are paying for and enjoying the fluff. But it doesn't take 4 months to put together 20-25 pages of the type of material Reaper is giving us. The problem appears to be (maybe I'm wrong) that Reaper staff are forced to write such materials between other projects and tasks, so it takes longer than it might otherwise, and the quality of product is less than what it could be.

 

Just my opinion of course.

 

I love the miniatures, I love the game, but Reaper is letting itself down with the types of products that are coming out and the production scheduele they are keeping. This game is tons better than many on the market, but it is difficult to showcase outside of the miniatures because the rules set is in disarray, and unclear, and the fluff is mediocre at best. Even after various faction books have come out I still don't feel like i know much about the armies they have detailed. These things are costing Reaper money, and money is the bottom line in business.

 

I Champion Reaper whenever I can, but it is difficult to promote them when they don't appear to be focused on promoting themselves. If Warlord is just to be another line of miniatures then fine, but if Warlord is to be a quality game in a sea of mediocre ones Reaper needs to pick up it's socks.

 

Well, that turned into a serious rant...

 

Non-one likes to be criticised, but my opinion is that negative comments, if well intended, are often more helpful than the positive ones. I hope these comments are taken in that light. I think i've more than proven on this site I am a fan of Reaper's games and miniatures. And if I havn't proven it here, I've proven it with my wallet. Still I'm sure this message won't make me a popular boy.

[Arbiter10]

I'm waiting to find out what the exact rosters for the two sublists look like before I start buying Overlords minis. I'm mainly interested in the Onyx Legion purely on the strength of the Matisse and warrior sculpts, but my interest might expand to include the Khardullis sublist and the default army depending on what new special abilities are revealed. Besides those two models, I'm guessing that most or all of the models with "onyx" in their name will be in this subfaction (and probably a few others), but I don't want to make assumptions and start buying minis I don't really want and won't use.

 

I don't mean to be a pain, but has the list of models in the Onyx Legion been finalized and, if so, would it be possible to see what's on it before the book comes out? It's been almost a week since I opened up a new Warlord blister and I'm starting to go through withdrawal.

[Baphomet69]

What IS the future release schedule (or order) of the faction books/deluxe faction sets yet to come? Has this been laid out before?

[Saint Vierzehn]

SE, the mercenaries have always been a "legitimate" faction, just not the people PLAYING mercs......at least that's what I'm told.

 

 

The Merc rules give little incentive to play a pure Merc faction instead of Freelance.

 

-StV.

[underling]

Well, I can see both sides of the disagreement. Reaper does try hard and puts out quality material. Hell, the only time I've ever had a problem with a mini, it was fixed promptly and shipped free. But some of our factions are hurting.

[wildger]

But some of our factions are hurting.

 

No question about it. Developing 11 factions at the same time is a hugh task. I feel that it would be better for Reaper to put out all the faction books out as soon as possible first before taking on CAV2.

[Qwyksilver]

In a perfect world, product would be written, laid out, and printed exactly on schedule, error free, without the need for a single errata. Unfortunately, we do not live in a perfect world, and deadlines cannot always be met. Yes, Reaper initially indicated they PLANNED on trying to put out a new Faction book every 2-3 months. This was neither a promise, nor a guarantee. As Gus pointed out, they have been very good about maintaining a consistent schedule, even if it has been a bit longer than many people would like. Yes it means that some people have to wait longer for the Faction book. That's unfortunate. Personally, 4 months works well for me, it allows me time to save the money between each new book to get the book and new models when they are available. The alternatives are waiting a year or two until all the books are written and then people will complain about how it's so long and unfair they have to wait for any new models and updates, and then BAM, the market gets oversaturated and flooded and people may not buy all the models they would if they were released at a slower rate. In the couple years that it takes for all the newer books to come out, they game could stagnate and linger at death's door as many CAV players can attest to in their areas. The other alternative is to crank out books every month without giving them enough time to be properly tested and reviewed. If you think things are bad now, just think what they would be like rushed at a faster pace than the present. There is no perfect solution. Releasing new models and new books on this kind of a schedule allows there to be a constant influx of freshness to the game. The other alternative: We never see a new model until the new Faction book comes out, and they hold on to everything until the book is ready. At least now, we can get an idea of what is coming. The fact that people are clamoring for the book means their appetite has been whet and releasing the Models is working.

 

The opportunity to see the new books before they are released and be involved in the process is available by requesting and being approved to be a Playtester.

 

Have there been errors in the Faction books as they have come out? Yes. It's a learning process for Reaper too as far as what kind of time management is needed to properly test the new rulesets and ensure writing is completed and proofed in a timely manner. It's a learning process about how clear and concise the rules need to be presented to avoid confusion. There is a limited number of testers, and once something hits public, and seen by a thousand new sets of eyes, something may pop up that gets missed. That's the nature of the industry at large. Hell, even the huge mega companies have errata. That is nothing new.

 

Let's not forget the game has undergone a change in oversight when Matt left and Michael took over. That right there is often enough to completely, utterly kill a game, but it didn't. Sure it would be great if Reaper could hire a professional team whose sole dedication is game development, and let the other staff continue at their present jobs. Of course, that costs money, which needs to come from somewhere.

 

As far as holding off on CAV2 until all the faction books are done. The CAV players have been waiting for their updated game for a LONG time, since before Warlord came out. I wouldn't recommend trying to tell them to sit and wait a couple more years so Warlord can get their Faction books out, when they have been waiting for their new Core Rulebook. Trust me, start saying that too loud and too often, and a flight of Kharl Gunships are going to strafe you, an Orbital Strike will be called down on yor head by a group of Infantry hiding around the corner, and you'll get hit by a barrage of Dictator fire. That's an entirely different game, and if you want to find out more, go visit the CAV forums.

[joshuaslater]

I just wanted to chime in on some of spiritual exorcist's comments, and hopefully not draw too much fire for pointing out what I see as the difficulties of producing and promoting Warlord.

 

Warlord is not a big game in my region. I'm in Philly, and using the player locater, there are maybe two others within 50 miles of me. It has not caught on here like Warmachine or 40K, which seem to be the predominant games around here.

 

I am coming to Warlord as a side game from my love of Chronopia. I am actually running a Chronopia tournament at Southern Exposure III, even though the game is in total limbo and has NO support company anymore, and we've got ten players (definite) and maybe a few more. I know Warlord has no presence at these cons. It's not on the schedule at www.dexposure.com. When I asked them about Warlord, they emailed me back to ask if I was interested in running it.

 

If Warlord had some presence at these cons, I would participate, as I enjoy the game, but it is not there. Well, if I have enough initiative to run a Chronopia tourney, maybe you're wondering why I don't just become a Black Lightning member, start running demos, and try to draw enough players into the game that I could run a Warlord tourney.

 

Here's where we get to the crux of the biscuit. I find I would have a difficult time selling Warlord. I've helped run demos with my local Black Lightning rep, and the interest just doesn't seem to be there. Fantasy in general is a tough sell in the States, as shoot'em games with Warjacks or lasers seem to be more popular.

 

I can't tell someone in good conscience to buy the 2nd printing of the book, when they're just going to have to go online and download the cards anyway. Not that it's a big deal for me, but telling a new player that the stats in the book are already no longer accurate for a tournament is a bit of a turnoff. After buying more models that got changed to adepts, that I can't play, how do I tell a new player what to buy before a faction book comes out? I've looked at the faction books that my friend has, and they're not all that impressive for the money. Maybe all that info could have been done as downloads.

 

Last, but not least, the fluff hasn't caught the imagination of anyone that I've met. It's a continuation of all the D&D stereotypes, like the Dark Heaven line, and that is Reaper's bread and butter. I meet plenty of roleplayers who buy the models just 'cause they're great models, and work for their D&D games figures, but fluff wise, there's not anything too different than what we've all seen already.

 

Sculpting wise, this game has some absolutely great models, and that's where the money comes from. I think Reaper should have waited for all the models to be finished from the core book, before even bothering with the faction books at all. They could have released the new models and faction abilities as free downloads with all the errata, regrouped, and edited everything into one comprehensive second edition book.

 

Reaper just seems to be putting the cart before the horse.

 

I'll always be a fan of Reaper; they make great models. I don't know if Warlord is going to hold me. For such a beer and pretzels ruleset, it seems like a lot of mucky muck to keep up with the game. I'm all for keeping up with the changes to a games system I like on a forum, but when changes are so rampant, and balance so tricky, it feels like it's not going to take off. I'd rather have one 40$ rulebook like the Chronopia book, with all the armies in it, and a two page download of errata, than shell out the coin on a rulebook that's outdated, more models than I can use, with cards that may not be accurate anymore, and have to check online for every change coming my way as faction books are released and players chime in to address the balance of them.

 

I am not trashing Reaper, but I think that some steps are needed to ensure people don't just give up on the game.