Discussion on Aysa

[ecs05norway]

Yes, and Holy Burst does a lot more than Spectral Minions. It does immediate damage and healing. Minionating calls up speedbumps that you then have to move into position and try to actually attack with. They're almost guaranteed not to survive a defensive strike, either...

[Hellsgate]

speed bumps arn't ment to kill them they're there to slow your enemy down. Don't attack with your minions then you opponent will only get the one attack and you still get you defencive strike.

[Soulcatcha]

Yes, and Holy Burst does a lot more than Spectral Minions. It does immediate damage and healing. Minionating calls up speedbumps that you then have to move into position and try to actually attack with. They're almost guaranteed not to survive a defensive strike, either...

Maybe so but maybe the issue then is the points cost of spectral minions. it is after all the same points cost as holy burst! Also this whole thread was about Aysa being prehaps too cheap and ive not seen a thread suggesting that either holy burst or Kristianna are too powerful or cheap (suprisigly enough )

[Qwyksilver]

Because Kristiana costs 100 points more than Aysa. I don't think any (non-Necro) player would be complaining if Aysa was doing what she is doing and cost as much as Kristiana.

 

Actually, Tony has done fairly well using his Minions as aggressors. They are fairly useless in one on one combat true, but when he can move his familiar into close combat range, summon six of them the first time, usually 4-6 the second time, and then 2-4 thereafter, those numbers add up quickly and you've got a free swarm. With Crypt Legion, they also gain Tough/1, so even when you destroy one, there's still a 20% chance it gets back up.

 

Since Aysa doesn't carry spells other than her Innate one, there's no reason to waste time shooting the familiar, so it just sits there breeding more evil.

[Soulcatcha]

Because Kristiana costs 100 points more than Aysa. I don't think any (non-Necro) player would be complaining if Aysa was doing what she is doing and cost as much as Kristiana.

 

Actually, Tony has done fairly well using his Minions as aggressors. They are fairly useless in one on one combat true, but when he can move his familiar into close combat range, summon six of them the first time, usually 4-6 the second time, and then 2-4 thereafter, those numbers add up quickly and you've got a free swarm. With Crypt Legion, they also gain Tough/1, so even when you destroy one, there's still a 20% chance it gets back up.

 

Since Aysa doesn't carry spells other than her Innate one, there's no reason to waste time shooting the familiar, so it just sits there breeding more evil.

exactly Qwyk, it seems to me that the Aysa thing not unbeatable but that compared to other innate spell users(and i only used Kristianna as example)she gets her spell very cheap so either the base cost for the minion spell too high(which i agree it isnt exactly Holy burst or firestorm (thank god)so maybe 75pts too steep?) OR shes getting a fantastic bargain on an innate spell and with GF a kick-arss way to use it which seems a little unfair to ALL other models with an innate spell.As i said this doesnt bother me unduly just seems a bit odd

[spiritual_exorcist]

Kristianna has CP 7, Aysa has CP 4, thus Kristianna's Innate spell is likely pointed higher for that very reason.

 

Aysa is almost always taken with Greater Magical Enhancement, which pushes her cost up 45 points. If you really wanted to limit this model give her Beast.

[Qwyksilver]

Aysa is almost always taken with Greater Magical Enhancement, which pushes her cost up 45 points. If you really wanted to limit this model give her Beast.

 

If she had Beast, she could not use the Gruesome Familiar or Bindsouls as well. As a stock model, she really does stink to be honest, even with the Innate Spell.

[spiritual_exorcist]

She does indeed stink as a base model. But she is nasty when equipped propely.

 

If she has beast she could still use Bind SOuls broken by other Mages.

 

And if she had Beast you could even see fit to boost her CP up to 5.

[Brushmaster]

While beast would limit her abilities , it makes no sence to have any Mage abilities either , other than the Inate spell .

[spiritual_exorcist]

Why not? The addition of Beast and a boost to CP makes her a viable candidate to cast other spells in my opinion. It wouldn't be so automatic that she casts Undying host every turn, as it might only give you 0-3 minions. She might be better off casting a Scare spell or a Life Transfer, or sacrificing spells to Necromantic Surge, or using a Dispel. She is a Level 3 Mage, let her be used as one, I've never seen her do anything but cast Undying Host.

 

She would become that mid-level Mage the Crypt Legion lack, bridging between Moandain and Railor. I think giving her Beast might see her used less, but it might also see her used in many different roles.

 

She could still sit back all game ans slowly churn out Minion, or she could perform different roles, perhaps casting Undying Host a few times early int he game while moving up into position to cast support spells if needed.

 

As is the major thing preventing her from being used as a proper Mage is that many people are using her with a Gruesome familiar, meaning if they take any other spells they risk losing them. As she stand even without the familiar the only spell I would bring her with is a Dispel.

[Outkast Samurai]

I think a solution for some of this would be to limit the gruesome familiar to being unable to have innate spells cast through it. Then Aysa would have to come out and play to get the minions close enough to swarm quickly or risk having them trek all the way across the battlefield. It would still retain its nastiness for dropping spells from hidden models but would put a damper on the abuse of innate spells that are never at risk from being lost.

[Darthiir]

While beast would limit her abilities , it makes no sence to have any Mage abilities either , other than the Inate spell .

 

If you gave Aysa the beast SA you would have to change her CP to somehting higer than 4, especially seeing that she is a level 3 mage. With a CP of 6 she would have a 70% chance of hitting most grunt and adept models. Sure she might be hard pressed against the Nefsokar, but who isn't.

 

With that being said, and having almost a full week to think about it. . . .for her points, taking in to consideration her DV, CP and all that. . .she may not be broken, however, when given the right equipment she becomes a machine. . .that is hard to overcome, especially in timed events when every model, spell, and point matters.

 

She churns out minions, at no cost to her side, while her enemies fall. In the end the Legion has lost a lot of minions, at no cost to the player, and their enemy has lost actual models.

[spiritual_exorcist]

If you give her CP 6 you're giving her a GME, which is half the problem. That + Bond Souls (Even if she couldn't take Bond Souls, Railor could)means she is casting Undying Host at a pretty high rate. Granted the number of bond souls would be fairly limited if it was only Railors on the Board.

 

I'd be happier with CP 5, putting her on the same level as Malek; at CP 6, she jumps up into the Realm of fairly good caster rather than moderate one. Just personal choice, in either case you'd have to increase her points cost to reflect the higher CP and gaining Beast.

 

Outcast Samurai's fix would also work, seeing how Aysa would be the only model affected (as Moandain's innate spell) wouldn't be applicable. I would go for this fix too, and it probably would be easier to implement.

[Lawgiver]

I agree with Outkast's solution. remove innates from use with Gruesome familiars.

[Stubbdog]

I 2nd that motion..