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The State of Warlord


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[MOD] Split Off Topic Discussion from Flyer Thread started here If folks want to discuss the current state of Warlord they are welcome to. Don't completely skew another thread however. [/MOD]

 

god no wonder so many people are quiting the game. i talked to some of the store i use to demo for while i was with black lightening. and they told me everyone i started getting to play quit the game. with rules like these im not supprised. and i got news for yall., i overheard some of the black lightening members at nuke con this year are so upset there ready to quit also...

 

man i dunno what you people are doing to this game of yours but if you expect to continue being in the market of miniature games i strongly reccomend you start getting to know what it is the rest of the world thinks of the rules of this game. most of the people on these forums are devoted to the games so theyll except any rule changes placed..

 

like bl memebers leave out comment cards at there demos.. id do it but i dont have time to bl anymore.. and to be honest even if i had the time.. dunno if id want to anymore.. rather disapointed i am

Edited by Qwyksilver
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What I don't get is this: why get upset about a rule change that you get for free and only affects one model? Would it be better for Reaper to leave a clearly broken rule for three years or more, then publish a new edition of the rules and charge $50 to $80 for the update that changes ALL rules from the previous Ed. that were unpopular, and then leave it again, freshly broken in new and inventive ways, for another three years?

 

I'm a retailer from Poland. We were the first store in my country selling Reaper models. We have tried to sell WL game from the day it was available on the market.

I'm not able to sell the game, because I have to say to my clients: here is the rulebook, but you have to look in the internet for updates, revisions, and erratas. Here are data cards, but they are not valid any more. You will find up-to-date cards in the internet. It is not honest to sell rulebooks and then say, that it is not valid. And as a retailer I have to state, that downloadable errata does not help a bit. People don't want to buy a book, then look for errata, print it , put is somewhere in the book and try to remember what rules have been changed. They want to buy a book and play a game.

It is visible for a long time, that WL needs an update, a serious revision of rules. I don't think that it is possible to do it right now, when there are so many faction books (new models, spells, rules) to be relased.

I'd love to see it done just after the release of the last faction book. Till that day, I'd suggest Reaper to put a downloadable version of rules.

As it is for now - WL is not very popular in USA, in Europe it is almost unknown, and it is 2 years on the market already. How long can we say "give WL time, it is a new game?". To be honest - I don't see, that Reaper is doing much to promote Reaper. BL team is apparently not enough. Reapersite is not showing WL, while it should shout " We got a great game here!". To find out something about the game, one has to create an account. Painted models? To be honest - paintjobs are often not of the top-quality, not to mention the quality of pics. Take a look at Rackham company - they are the best example of how a game should be presented. They have promoted the game with poor ruleset behind it only because they showed perfectly painted models.

 

To finish my OT - I play WL myself. I want this game to be popular. I much regret, that it is not, and that I don't see chances for it to be popular in the near future.

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For a company far smaller than Reaper, Excelsior did a good job collating five books of the first edition into one fantastic book, with far more playability and strategy to offer.

 

Target games wasn't laid low by Chronopia. Chronopia was sellin'. Their vastly expensive foray into computer games brought Target to a crash.

 

Excelsior picked up the license and it's exhorbitant fees for a game that was tainted because Target went under, screwing a lot of retailers, not the game being a bad game. That made getting retailers to pick it up again well nigh impossible. Paradox used Excelsior simply to keep the Warzone license alive, and offered no support. Everything promised Excelsior fell through, as Paradox was too busy getting the Robert Howard/Conan licensing in their pockets. Let's see how their CMG miniature game goes for Warzone--already pushed back because people liked the Excelsior version better.

 

For a "twice dead game", we still had fourteen players at Southern Exposure III, while Warlord wasn't even around. Thom Talamini's decision to not release the greens for these games came about from the nasty business with Paradox, and his side of the story is forthcoming on the Excelsior forum, which by the way, still has a tiny core of the faithful playing.

 

Sorry to have pulled the thread into this direction, but a good game is a good game, whether supported by a company or no. That being said, having the Warlord flying rules a little more detailed would not be a bad idea.

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I appreciate that Ranz. From my experience here, I've found you to be pretty good about any rules queries people have had and I know you're trying to really drive Warlord. I think Reaper's game deserves this.

 

I picked up Warlord after Excelsior went under, because I liked the models, and I like Reaper, and I like pushing painted pewter and throwing dice. I do share some of the same concerns about how they're pushing the game, but it's in the interest of constructive criticism that I'm comparing the two games.

 

Cheers.

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The new flying rule is not that bad and certainly this one change will not make this game uninteresting or unplayable. People not playing because of the marketing strategy from Reaper. I live in a city of 1 million people and I think I am one of the handful (ie less than 5 at most) buying Warlord. It is hard to sell. Everything on the shelf in my local game store is almost out of date. In addition to the rule books, many blisters still have metal bases and do not contain a card. Asking people to look up the website and download the errata simply does not work. Besides, if a potential player likes to play dwarfs or elves, what can you tell them? Wait for the faction books to come out?!

 

As I mentioned in my previous posts, Reaper should put in all their effort for Warlord. Otherwise, you will have two dying games, WL and CAV2. Post the beta version of the rules for the remaining factions. Correct all the errata. Put out all the faction books. Have a third printing or second edition of the rules containing information of all the updated factions. Re-introduce Warlord as a new game. This means that the company will have to dump money to promote. You cannot simply reply on BL. Afterall, they are volunteers and there are limits to what they can do. Update the Learning to Paint kits. Use Warlord models instead of Dark Heaven. In #1 kit, for example, use Templar Knight and wardog instead. This way, you can target those who is reluctant to play WL because of miniature painting. Put out a monthly website flyer for Warlord, containing painted models, history, new development and battle reports. Develope a storyline if possible.

 

All the suggestions mentioned will help to promote WL and all can be achieveable.

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The new flying rule is not that bad and certainly this one change will not make this game uninteresting or unplayable. People not playing because of the marketing strategy from Reaper. I live in a city of 1 million people and I think I am one of the handful (ie less than 5 at most) buying Warlord. It is hard to sell. Everything on the shelf in my local game store is almost out of date. In addition to the rule books, many blisters still have metal bases and do not contain a card. Asking people to look up the website and download the errata simply does not work. Besides, if a potential player likes to play dwarfs or elves, what can you tell them? Wait for the faction books to come out?!

 

There is a simple and easy solution.

 

You, as store owner, make your stock saleable. How do you do this?

 

1) Print up the Errata (photocopies are cheap) and enclose it in the rulebooks.

 

2) Print up the data cards and staple them to the blisters.

 

3) "Wait for the Faction Book to come out"? Hell no. What comes in the core rules is perfectly playable as-is. Sure, factions that have got their first round of expansions have more stuff to pick from, but that doesn't invalidate your choice to play, oh, Dwarves, just because the faction book isn't out yet. It's not like Warhamster where the rulebook is just the rules, and you HAVE to buy a Faction Book in order to play at all!

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Here again, we're back to a third party making Reaper's games playable instead of Reaper actually publishing playable games.

 

I, as a player, or as a store owner, should not have to include handouts in rulebooks to make sure the players are getting the updated information. All this really does is make the game less attractive to both retailers and players because the product as delivered is not complete. Retailers can't take the packages out of the shipment and put them right on the shelves/hooks for sale, and players can't go home, glue models together and start rolling dice.

 

Warlord has one of the worst post-purchase efforts required to play of any game I currently own. And that's a LOT of games.

 

Reaper exacerbates this problem by pushing responsibility for keeping people informed about changes off to Black Lightning, when even Black Lightning didn't have any advance warning about a change as earth shattering as the 1.2 datacards.

 

I've said it many times before, but Reaper needs to decide whether it wants to be a game company or a miniatures comapny that also sells games, and start treating the product lines accordingly.

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While NO gaming company is perfect, Reaper has so far been nice enough to provide all of these changes for FREE!! Let me say that again: FREE! :lol:

 

Now, Games Workshop will happily publish errata for Warhammer. They do it all the time. But, they force you to buy their monthly White Dwarf magazine in order to see the errata. Or else have a really good friend who is willing to let you photocopy the pages.

 

Is Reaper perfect? No. Am I perfect? Absolutely! :lol::lol::devil::lol::lol: Seriously, how many people does Reaper employ to handle the war gaming rules? 2? 4? 87? Whatever the number, it obviously is not enough. Does that mean they should go out and hire people tomorrow to correct the problem? Not necessarily. Maybe they need to reprioritize where their people spend their time on various projects. Who knows?

 

I'm sure that the Reaper peeps have read our comments about their promotions of the game, and are trying their best to accomodate the suggestions. The catch-22 is: you have to spend money to make money. If they don't have money to spend... :wacko:

 

Wild Bill :blues:

 

P.S. Maybe this needs to get split into another thread...

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Reaper exacerbates this problem by pushing responsibility for keeping people informed about changes off to Black Lightning, when even Black Lightning didn't have any advance warning about a change as earth shattering as the 1.2 datacards.

 

I've said it many times before, but Reaper needs to decide whether it wants to be a game company or a miniatures comapny that also sells games, and start treating the product lines accordingly.

 

Well said. So far, Reaper has not acted as a game company. I know that my previous comment about CAV2 may upset some people. However, there is no doubt in my mind that CAV2 will end up with WL, going no where.

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For the record, all of GW's official errata and FAQ's are freely downloadable from their website, and have been since at least the release of Warhammer 40k 4th edition almost two years ago.

 

So Reaper is not any more noble than the "Evil Empire" for providing errata free of charge.

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